Obama on guns

You're absolutely right TJ. I'd better go see the Dr. first thing on Monday, because I must be insane to believe that the values that this country were formed on should still be intact today. That we should still have ALL of our rights and freedoms. It's insane of me to believe that a politician that supports abortion, gay marriage, free handouts to lazy @ss folks that won't do anything to help themselves, and taking away law abiding citizens rights to own firearms should not be our President. That the same politician above, who has never served this country in uniform, nor been involved with any aspect of our military command structure, should not be our countries Commander in Chief.

If that's insanity than they'd better start building more mental care facilities in this country, because I'm positive that I'm not the only one that should be going to the loony bin.
 
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Rimmy,

How did I know that you'd show up right in the middle of this? Tommy, your reinforcements from the left are here.


I see you’re still hung up on the either/or syndrome. In your world anyone who doesn’t agree with everything you say must be a leftist. Maybe in time you will learn that there is a center, a group that agrees with you on some issues and disagrees with you on others.



Rimmy,

For years you and I have argued politics, I have read your posts and listened to your side. You have NEVER attacked the left, only the right. You have derogotory comments every post about the Right, Conservatives and Republicans, but constantly defend the Left. But when you are confronted about it... "Im an independent" BS!!!

If I live to be a 100 years old, I will never understand how all of you democrats can support a party that you don't have guts enough to claim. Come on out and say it Rimmy, your voting for Obama. If you cant say it then you shouldn't be doing it. I'm sure you'll hide behind some kind of "I don't have to tell you who I'm voting for" nonsense, but I hope you think about why you can vote for a guy that you are ashamed to admit your voting for.
 
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Listen to yourself. Life of crime, door to door inspecting and confiscating, distribution of wealth.

Have you seen a doctor about this?




Listen to your self... Obama will "fix" the country, "common sense" gun laws", "I'd give up some gun rights for Obama to give us some security"

Have you seen a doctor about this?

If you believe he is the savior of this country and means no harm to your liberties, you need your head examined.
 
I have repeatly expressed opinions similar to yours on immigration, capital punishment, the second amendment, and our rights as hunters. If you would bother to look back at my posts you will see that most of my criticism was directed at the Bush administration or politicians in general. Where I have defended anyone on the left is usually where someone has posted an Internet myth and I have used Snopes to point out the error. It’s not very often that someone posts something negative about a politician on the right that doesn’t draw a wave of protests from several members, so I have mostly avoided preaching to the choir. As far as the current GOP ticket I have never thought much of John McCain even when he was my senator. I thought I might vote for him when he ran in 2000. The beginning of my disgust with the Bush Administration was seeing the way they attacked McCain in that primary. My disgust with McCain started to grow when he embraced the same people who smeared him and his family so badly. Several times thru the years McCain stood up to the Bush people only to back down a few days later. I have often wondered what they threatened him with. Now here in the 2008 campaign I have seen train wreak that is the McCain campaign for President and wonder how he could run a country. Whatever John McCain has been in the past he is not capable now. Although I think it’s rude of you to keep asking this question and you’re right it is none of your business. I have already voted for Obama and I stand by that decision.
 
I'm from there and all my family is still back there in WA, I sure hope you voted Rossi. WA is not a swing state and wasn't going for McCain irrespective of who you voted for, but Rossi will make a huge, positive difference there. Gregoire needs to go! She is no friend of gun owners, hunters or those who pay taxes.

Your vote is private and I'm not asking whether you did, I'm just hoping all of our WA guys do so.
 
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Although I think it’s rude of you to keep asking this question and you’re right it is none of your business. I have already voted for Obama and I stand by that decision.



We all have 1 vote to cast. After that, we can only hope for the best. Once you throw the dice, there is no calling them back.

While I not agree with your vote, I respect the fact that you voted your conscience. That's the great thing about this country...everybody gets a vote to change the way things are.
 
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I have repeatly expressed opinions similar to yours on immigration, capital punishment, the second amendment, and our rights as hunters. If you would bother to look back at my posts you will see that most of my criticism was directed at the Bush administration or politicians in general. Where I have defended anyone on the left is usually where someone has posted an Internet myth and I have used Snopes to point out the error. It’s not very often that someone posts something negative about a politician on the right that doesn’t draw a wave of protests from several members, so I have mostly avoided preaching to the choir. As far as the current GOP ticket I have never thought much of John McCain even when he was my senator. I thought I might vote for him when he ran in 2000. The beginning of my disgust with the Bush Administration was seeing the way they attacked McCain in that primary. My disgust with McCain started to grow when he embraced the same people who smeared him and his family so badly. Several times thru the years McCain stood up to the Bush people only to back down a few days later. I have often wondered what they threatened him with. Now here in the 2008 campaign I have seen train wreak that is the McCain campaign for President and wonder how he could run a country. Whatever John McCain has been in the past he is not capable now. Although I think it’s rude of you to keep asking this question and you’re right it is none of your business. I have already voted for Obama and I stand by that decision.




Thank you Rimmy, I think it is great that you finally stood up and took responsibility for where you stand. I'm not trying to invade your privacy, but I just have gotten sick of people who want to lob bombs at the right and then say "Im an independent". If you believe it, live it, be proud of it.

It does leave me scratching my head how you can say your for hunting rights, 2nd ammendment rights, capital punishment and the like and then vote for Obama. Kinda like a hen voting to elect a fox, but hey, if that's your choice, viva la socialism! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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It does leave me scratching my head how you can say your for hunting rights, 2nd ammendment rights, capital punishment and the like and then vote for Obama. Kinda like a hen voting to elect a fox, but hey, if that's your choice, viva la socialism! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif


There are issues I disagree with Obama on, however I feel that our economy has been the source of our strength. The Bush administration has blown it on this issue and I don’t think that a McCain administration can do any better. I didn’t vote for Obama because I think that his administration will be so wonderful, I just think it will be better than a McCain administration.
 
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It does leave me scratching my head how you can say your for hunting rights, 2nd ammendment rights, capital punishment and the like and then vote for Obama. Kinda like a hen voting to elect a fox, but hey, if that's your choice, viva la socialism! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif


There are issues I disagree with Obama on, however I feel that our economy has been the source of our strength. The Bush administration has blown it on this issue and I don’t think that a McCain administration can do any better. I didn’t vote for Obama because I think that his administration will be so wonderful, I just think it will be better than a McCain administration.




What do you think that Obama is going to do to improve the economy? How exactly will he improve our economic power standing?
 
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How will McCain do it?




I know that history shows us that cutting income taxes, capital gains taxes and corp taxes stimulates the economy and raises the government's income. Raising taxes and redistributing them as welfare payments slows the economy and lowers tax receipts. I know that we are already in a mess of debt and Obama is proposing one Trillion dollars in new spending. I know that Democrats believe that more government is the answer to everything. I know that if McCain is in the White House we will have at least somewhat of a stop-gap against the wild-eyed liberalism of Reed and Pelosi in the House and Senate.

Now, your turn, what will Obama do that will improve the economy? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
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I know that history shows us that cutting income taxes, capital gains taxes and corp taxes stimulates the economy and raises the government's income.


Let’s see some examples and remember cutting taxes and running up the national debt to do it is a false example. Borrow and spend is only redistributing the cost to another generation.
 
So what you are saying is that you can only attack GWB? You don't have anything that you think BHO will do to improve the economy? For not being a Democrat, you have the talking points down pretty good.
 
I wish those leftist elites would stop making such lame attempts to try and connect the McCain camp with GWB. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

mccain%20bush%20hug%20twn.jpg
 
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So what you are saying is that you can only attack GWB? You don't have anything that you think BHO will do to improve the economy? For not being a Democrat, you have the talking points down pretty good.


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I know that history shows us that cutting income taxes, capital gains taxes and corp taxes stimulates the economy and raises the government's income.



You made this statement and the Bush administration made these moves yet the result has been a 4 trillion dollar increase in the national debit. So how do you see this as a success? Now McCain wants to make these tax increase permanent and you wonder why I compare him to GWB? Do you expect the same failed policies to suddenly start working? Your answer is to accuse me of using democrat talking points. You don’t have to be a Democrat to see that GWB has failed us and that McCain will go down the same path.
 
the tax cuts resulted in record revenues collected. Same as they did under reagan.

deficits are a result of spending more than you take in. you simply can't blame them on tax cuts, when the tax cuts resulted in more taxes actually collected.

if we don't control spending it'll never get better.
 
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the tax cuts resulted in record revenues collected. Same as they did under reagan.

deficits are a result of spending more than you take in. you simply can't blame them on tax cuts, when the tax cuts resulted in more taxes actually collected.

if we don't control spending it'll never get better.



Stu, both Rimmy and Tommy do not seem to understand this economic truism. They are subscribing to a flawed 'zero sum' view and this is just not how economics work.

Both complain about Bush's economic approach. Bush cut taxes (which should have been permanent) but allowed increased government spending. While revenue growth shot up as a result of his tax cuts, it did not keep pace with the government spending--NOTHING could have.

If Rimmy and Tommy's economic theory were correct--higher taxes = higher government revenues--then we'd have enjoyed MASSIVE government revenues under Jimmy Carter, when top marginal rates were in the 70% ranges.

Unfortunately for them, this was NOT the case. In fact, we suffered high inflation, stagflation, unemployment and a 'misery index.'

Reagan cut rates and government revenues skyrocketed. Unfortunately, the Democrat Congress reneged on promised spending cuts.

The '94 Republican Congress dragged Bil Clinton kicking and screaming into some reductions in spending increase amounts (NOT true cuts) and also dragged him into Welfare Reform and similar cost-cutting measures. This was done with positive effect and he was then happy to take credit for it--even though those bills were Republican in origin.

What Rimmy and Tommy do NOT acknowledge is the Democrat ticket's stated claim of their belief that the tax code exists, not JUST to pay for government services, but as a magic wand to create 'fairness' in our society and to 'punish' those dastardly people who create businesses and/or earn over 250K annually. This motive is, in my view, fundamentally anti-American and has only proven a failure when previously tried.

Raising taxes and growing government (claims that this growth is 'investment' notwithstanding, lol ) has NEVER corrected economic problems. When FDR did this it prolonged the Great Depression until WWII ended it in 1941. Yet, despite all the evidence that tax increases and increased government growth will only hurt the economy, people like this are somehow convinced that this time it will magically have a different result.

It won't. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Bush has gone from $1.9 trillion in 2001 in spending to almost $2.9 trillion in 2008. Over the five years of data I just got done looking at Clinton increased only in decimal points from $1.6 trillion (1996) - $1.9 trillion (2000).

Was handed around a 230 billion surplus, is walking away in a half a trillion deficit.

Bush has spent some mad change during his time. And I dont think by looking at those numbers you can dispute that.
 
again, a problem of spending, not taxing.

and the dems in office right now, including obama, propose to spend yet even more than we have been.
 
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