Important...Safety of our country and our gun rights..

Quote:
we the people will fix "THE BIG PROBLEMS"
"government by the people"

price of gasoline is not a right
GUN OWNERSHIP IS
and should be fought for with all our might

not sure i agree with "they both lie"
but in the words of chuck heston
FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS !!!

guero



I like Mike Vanderboegh's response better.
 
Quote:
Quote:
WE COULD DEBAIT THIS STUFF FOR EVER.THEY BOTH TRY TO SAY WHAT THE MAGORITY WANT TO HEAR TO GET THE VOTES.THEN DO ANYTHING THEY SEE FIT WHEN IN OFFICE,AND THEY BOTH LIE TO ABOUT THE OTHER IN THERE ADS.SO IT MAKES IT HARD TO BELEVE WHICH IS THE BEST FOR THE JOB.DONT GET ME WRONG I WANT TO HUNT,SHOOT A BUY GUNS AS MUCH AS MOST OTHERS,BUT WHAT ABOUT THE BIG PICTURE,WRIGHT NOW THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER BIG PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN CARE OF.



If people who think like you allow someone in a position where they can strip our Right to Keep And Bear Arms you can bet your a$$ the rest of the Constitution will fall shortly after. And you think we have big problems now ? Look through your history books at EVERY government that took guns away from the people. I don't know who said "Fear the government that fears your guns" but they are words you need to remember. We don't need a dictator telling us what to do when to do it and how to think. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 
I AM NOT SAYS GUN WRIGHTS ARNT IMPORTANT,WHAT I AM SAYING IS I SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY VOTE FOR ONE PERSON JUST BECAUSE HE SUPPORTS GUNS.WHEN SOME OF THE THINGS HE WANTS IS HIGHER TAXES,TAX HEALTH CARE SO SO COMPANYS WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR IT AND POSSABLY DROP IT AND MAKE THE WORKERS PAY FOR THERE OWN,AND SUPPORT PREXISTING CONDTIONS SO INSURACE COMPANYS CAN DENIE CLAMS.WHAT I AM SAYING IS WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO AFFORD A LOT OF THINGS WE CAN NOW.WHAT GOOD WILL IT BE IF WE CAN BUY AND USE ALL THE GUNS WE WANT,IF WE HAVE NO WAY TO BUY THEM OR SHOOT THEM BECAUSE WE HAVE TO PAY FOR SO MANY OTHER THINGS OR IF WE EVEN HAVE A JOB.
 
Gun Rights, is not the only reason I am voting the way I am. I have heard a lot of what Osama...oops, Obama, wants to do and what he said. Do you really think he is not going to raise taxes? From his mouth "I think the people of this country can afford a 15% increase in the federal tax cap"! Sounds like a start to raising taxes to me. All these programs he talks about implementing, where do you think he will get the money for these? The government sure doesn't have it. When questioned about much of what he said his responses sound to me like they are programed, not coming from the heart. Much isn't answered. Why try to talk around a question unless you have something to hide. He is another one who wants this country to depend on everyone else instead of supporting ourselves with many things. Osama...[beeep]..did it again, has NO experience either. Would you trust your life with a doctor that has no experience? I wouldn't. My point with the gun laws isn't for my love of shooting, we all have guns that no one knows about. If our gun Rights are stripped, in the end thats EXACTLY what he wants, our government will have no checks against them and will be able to do as they see fit regardless what the people think. You will eventually have a socialist government. Isn't that why this form of government is in place? As Americans, I don't think we would do very well living in a country like China, North Korea, Russia, or even England. Look at some of the social problems that are rising in England and Australia now that they have started stripping people of their gun Rights, and their just getting started.
For the record, I am not registered republican either. I am not supporting for McCain, I'm voting against Obama. Frankly, the thought of Obama holding that revered, maybe wrong word, position scares the $hit out of me.
I have a lot of thoughts about all this but not good at putting it to words, hope it makes sense.
Oh by the way, isn't it great that we can have discussions like this on this forum? Other forums I'm on it's not accepted.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
FEAR

notice that this forum is filled with folks who are sponsored by manufacturers associated with hunting/shooting/firearms/ammunition/accesories and others who actually sell their wares here
and
they have gone "dark" on this posted question and issue
i don't see one single post from them
says something about the "change" in america that...
we are looking for ???

also

each of us should understand that
the american media and the politicians
focus "our" attention on federal income tax !!!
the US government (nor state or local governments) don't operate "the machine" on income tax
THERE IS NO STATE INCOME TAX IN TEXAS

for the answer to the increases you will see coming
and what will pay for programs/pork/poor/middle class/wealthy or actually the things we need to operate this great nation
look into federal taxes on
things you buy
things you spend your dollars on
from your phone to your gas and yes to your guns
this is money you can't track
that each of us pays willingly without question
as necessities

think about this and please vote

guero
 
Quote:
FEAR

notice that this forum is filled with folks who are sponsored by manufacturers associated with hunting/shooting/firearms/ammunition/accesories and others who actually sell their wares here
and
they have gone "dark" on this posted question and issue
i don't see one single post from them
says something about the "change" in america that...
we are looking for ???
guero



I would imagine it's because wise men do not discuss politics and religion with people they have business relationships with. Even if they think they know what their views are.
 
uh
is that your quote or confucius's ???
so glad the framers of this great country
mostly businessmen didn't follow your advice
and spoke out and up
and entered into conversation with others... even those they disagreed with
sounds american to me...and that was my point
guero
 
guerowolf,
Very observant of you. I didn't notice that before. I agree with you. If you live by something and believe in it, you should stand behind it and everything that goes with it. Sometimes you just have to take a stand and let the chips fall where they may.

yipnhowl, I understand your point also but on this forum with this kind of clientele, who is going to be offended. If the person in the sporting goods business looses a customer on this site, he wasn't worth having in the first place. Nothing personnel just MY stand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Why at times like this would you want to vote for someone who wants to take your guns, and raise your taxes so he can give the money to people who don't pay taxes and aren't here legal. THINK ABOUT IT
 
Quote:
look into federal taxes on things you buy




Even taxes are just part of the picture. My concerns:

abortion
gun rights
educational freedom (we homeschool)
environmental stand (this covers hunting, oil, all of it)
supreme court judges appointments
overall worldview
taxes

My decision is based on a composite of all these, not a single issue. Of course, it's pretty easy to see which candidate best fills those shoes.
 


I didn't read all of this thread but I read enough of the responses that I became concerned enough to put in my two cents worth.

I guess I'm not a wise business man but I do now how to speak my mind.

I hunt with a guy and just assumed he was voting for McCain. Boy was I wrong. I began asking him a few questions and quickly found he was basing his decisions off the rhetoric and not the facts. You see many politicians run their campaigns based off the fact that most people won't check the facts and have very short memories. These politicians are very charismatic and have learned to manipulate these feeble minded people into voting for them. YES I SAID FEEBLE MINDED. Check the facts and not the rhetoric.

Obama has a short record but it is filled with nothing but the most liberal votes that stem from the liberal ideology that he wants to implement on us all as president. COMPARE WHAT HE SAYS HE IS GONNA DO TO WHAT HE HAS ALREADY DONE. If you look at the two they are very different. I will also go on to say if you believe he will do what he is saying while trying to get elected once in the white house then you are a FOOL.

Now to McCain…..He wasn't my first pick but he is what we have got. Each year it seems we have a choice and have to choose the lesser of the two evils. With this said I give McCain my full support. Let’s look at his LONG record and not what Obama and the media want you to think of his record. I have no compunction in casting my vote for him as I know he is there for the right reasons and with Palin I believe they have a demonstrable record of doing what is right for the people regardless of politics.

Back to my friend. I asked him "are you a liberal". His answer was "if Jesus Christ was a liberal it is good enough for me". I like to have fell over. I asked "so you believe Jesus supports abortion, Gay marriage, yada..yada..yada...". He had this dumb look on his face and then he didn't want to talk about it. Over the course of several encounters I would bring it up and he would just cringe as if he didn't want to debate it. You see it became evident that he had been brainwashed with this gobbledy gook, and was a true believer in these lies. This guy is not a dummy either. After I asked him a few more questions I got his mind working but could see his discomfort. You see it is hard to get through many years of indoctrinization (Brain washing).

Bottom line is this.

Any way you look at it Obama is a liberal. You can call it what you like but it is nothing more than socialist, Marxist, or communist when you want to take from those that earn it and give to those that didn't. Reduce or do away with gun rights (2nd amendment), suppress the first amendment (yes this is demonstrable too). He wants to increase the role of the government all across the board in every facet of our lives, from heath care to schools to government jobs. His tax plan raises taxes on the most productive people and GIVES it to the least productive. Think about this....his plan punishes producers and rewards those that don't produce. Check the facts. The more people dependent on the government the better it is in their eyes. Think about this. The government doesn't produce anything, they only take. Less government is good...more government is bad.

Check the facts and you will see that it was a liberal mindset and legislation that created the economic crisis we are seeing now. Thinking ahead...it will be a conservative mindset that gets us out of it...PERIOD. I believe I will trust McCain and Palin to get the job done.

If you plan on voting for Obama I want you to think about this.

What do you think Obama would have done if he was in the Vietnamese prison in McCain’s place?

What do you think he will do when Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid bring him legislation to sign?

Do you think he will hold the people like Barney Frank accountable for their corruptness that lead to the implosion of our financial system?

Do you think he will fight to preserve your gun rights?

Do you really think he will not raise your taxes? Look at his record. He has NEVER done this.

What do you think will happen when he raises taxes on the business where you work? Think you will get a raise? Wouldn’t you think they might look for ways to trim down? Could it be your job?

What kind of supreme court judges do you think he will elect?

What about our enemies around the world? If Obama is elected do you believe Iran’s leader will all of a sudden become sane enough we can negotiate with him? What about N Korea? Venezuela? Cuba?
Do you think he has the will to stand tough to the Russians, China?

As you can tell by now I’m voting for McCain. In fact I’ve already voted. I also encourage you to do the same if you care about these things. If this sounds like I’m scared as [beeep] Obama may get elected your right. For those of you foolish enough to think Obama won’t have all the power he needs to pass his socialist agenda then you aren’t thinking clearly. He will have a liberal congress and senate to streamline the process. You will then see many of our liberties disappear. Just asked England and Australia if they thought they would ever lose their rights to their guns. Obama says he doesn’t want to take your guns. Fact is he want to heavily restrict what guns you can have and will place and excessive tax on the ones he deems OK for you to have. This is a long range ploy to make them so difficult that over time people won’t have them and then one day we realize the precious right to bear arms at all is gone for good.

Sorry for the rant. Just don’t be a fool.

Byron
 
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I also wish to add. I don't hate you if you support Obama. I feel that if you support Obama you fall into two different catagories. 1. Either you agree with his liberal mindset or 2. you don't understand his liberal mindset. Either way, in this great contry we have, you do have this right. Just look at history though and if you look at it objectively you can't possibly defend liberalism, socialism, communism or what ever you want to call it. Many on the left get all testy when they are compared to communist, socialist or even Marxist. But lets boil it down...Liberalism is just a tag word that promotes the same mindset and the other isms I just named. This idealogy has failed miserably in every country where it was implemented. It's only accomplished the end result of giving the government more control over its citizens. In most cases it has done this to a point where the citizens no longer have power and they become subjects. WE THE PEOPLE should resist this on all fronts as our forefathers have done through the many generations that have shaped this great country.

As a christian or hunter you can not deffend your support of Obama with any reason. As a believer of the freedoms this country represents you have no other choice than John McCain.

Byron
 
This is a letter a local guy sent to Obama. I don't know this guy but he is real. I see his trucks all over now here in East Texas. This is a good read and well worth the time.

Mr. Obama,

Given the uproar about the simple question asked you by Joe the plumber, and
the persecution that has been heaped on him because he dared to question you, I
find myself motivated to say a few things to you myself. While Joe aspires to
start a business someday, I already have started not one, but 4 businesses. But
first, let me introduce myself. You can call me "Cory the well driller". I am
a 54 year old high school graduate. I didn't go to college like you, I was too
ready to go "conquer the world" when I finished high school. 25 years ago at
age 29, I started my own water well drilling business at a time when the economy
here in East Texas was in a tailspin from the crash of the early 80's oil boom.
I didn't get any help from the government, nor did I look for any. I borrowed
what I could from my sister, my uncle, and even the pawn shop and managed to
scrape together a homemade drill rig and a few tools to do my first job. My
businesses did not start not a result of privilege. It is the result of my
personal drive, personal ambition, self discipline, self reliance, and a
determination to treat my customers fairly. From the very start my business
provided one other (than myself) East Texan a full time job. I couldn't afford
a backhoe the first few years (something every well drilling business had), so I
and my helper had to dig the mud pits that are necessary for each and every job
with hand shovels. I had to use my 10 year old, 1/2 ton pickup truck for my
water tank truck (normally a job for at least a 2 ton truck).

A year and a half after I started the business, I scraped together a 20%
down payment to get a modest bank loan and bought a (28 year) old, worn out,
slightly bigger drilling rig to allow me to drill the deeper water wells in my
area. I spent the next few years drilling wells with the rig while
simultaneously rebuilding it between jobs. Through these years I never knew
from one month to the next if I would have any work or be able to pay the bills.
I got behind on my income taxes one year, and spent the next two years paying
that back (with penalty and interest) while keeping up with ongoing taxes. I
got behind on my water well supply bill 2 different years (way behind the second
time... $80,000.00), and spent over a year paying it back (each time) while
continuing to pay for ongoing supplies C.O.D.. Of course, the personal stress
endured through these experiences and years is hard to measure. I do have a
stent in my heart now to memorialize it all.

I spent the next 10 years developing the reputation for being the most
competent and most honest water well driller in East Texas. 2 years along the
way, I hired another full time employee for the drilling business so that we
could provide full time water well pump service as well as the well drilling.
Also, 3 years along the path, I bought a water well screen service machine from
a friend, starting business # 2. 5 years later I made a business loan for
$100,000.00 to build a new, higher production, computer controlled screen
service machine. I had designed the machine myself, and it didn't work out for
3 years so I had to make the loan payments without the benefit of any added
income from the new machine. No government program was there to help me with
the payments, or to help me sleep at night as I lay awake wondering how I would
solve my machine problems or pay my bills. Finally, after 3 years, I got the
screen machine working properly, and that provided another full time job for an
East Texan in the screen service business.

2 years after that, I made another business loan, this time for $250,000.00,
to buy another used drilling rig and all the support equipment needed to run
another, larger, drill rig. This provided another 2 full time jobs for East
Texans. Again, I spent a couple of years not knowing if I had made a smart
move, or a move that would bankrupt me. For the third time in 13 years, I had
placed everything I owned on the line, risking everything, in order to build a
business.

A couple of years into this, I came up with a bright idea for a new kind of
mud pump, a fundamentally necessary pump used on water well drill rigs. I spent
my entire life savings to date (just $30,000.00), building a prototype of the
pump and took it to the national water well convention to show it off.
Customers immediately started coming out of the woodworks to buy the pumps, but
there was a problem. I had depleted my assets making the prototype, and nobody
would make me a business loan to start production of the new pumps. With
several deposits for pump orders in hand, and nowhere to go, I finally started
applying for as many credit card as I could find and took cash withdrawals on
these cards to the tune of over $150,000.00 (including modest loans from my dear
sister and brother), to get this 3rd business going.

Yes, once again, I had everything hanging over the line in an effort to
start another business. I had never manufactured anything, and I had to design
and bring into production a complex hydraulic machine from an untested prototype
to a reliable production model (in six months). How many nights I lay awake
wondering if I had just made the paramount mistake of my life I cannot tell you,
but there were plenty. I managed to get the pumps into production, which
immediately created another 2 full time jobs in East Texas. Some of the models
in the first year suffered from quality issues due to the poor workmanship of
one of my key suppliers, so I and an employee (another East Texan employed) had
to drive across the country to repair customers' pumps, practically from coast
to coast. I stood behind the product, and made payments to all the credit cards
that had financed me (and my brother and sister). I spent the next 5 years
improving and refining the product, building a reputation for the pump and the
company, working to get the pump into drill rig manufacturers' product lines,
and paying back credit cards. During all this time I continued to manage a
growing water well business that was now operating 3 drill rig crews, and 2 well
service crews. Also, the screen service business continued to grow. No
government programs were there to help me, Mr. Obama, but that's ok, I didn't
expect any, nor did I want any. I was too busy fighting to make success happen
to sit around waiting for the government to help me.

Now, we have been manufacturing the mud pumps for 7 years, my combined
businesses employ 32 full time employees, and distribute $5,000,000.00 annually
through the local economy. Now, just 4 months ago I borrowed $1,254,000.00,
purchasing computer controlled machining equipment to start my 4th business, a
production machine shop. The machine shop will serve the mud pump company so
that we can better manufacture our pumps that are being shipped worldwide. Of
course, the machine shop will also do work for outside companies as well. This
has already produced 2 more full time jobs, and 2 more should develop out of it
in the next few months. This should work out, but if it doesn't it will be
because you, and the other professional politicians like yourself, will have
destroyed our countrys' (and the world) economy with your meddling with mortgage
loan programs through your liberal manipulation and intimidation of loaning
institutions to make sure that unqualified borrowers could get mortgages. You
see, at the very time when I couldn't get a business loan to get my mud pumps
into production, you were working with Acorn and the Community Reinvestment Act
programs to make sure that unqualified borrowers could buy homes with no down
payment, and even no credit or worse yet, bad credit. Even the infamous,
liberal, Ninja loans (No Income, No Job or Assets). While these unqualified
borrowers were enjoying unrealistically low interest rates, I was paying 22% to
24% interest on the credit cards that I had used to provide me the funds for the
mud pump business that has created jobs for more East Texans. It's funny,
because after 25 years of turning almost every dime of extra money back into my
businesses to grow them, it has been only in the last two years that I have
finally made enough money to be able to put a little away for retirement, and
now the value of that has dropped 40% because of the policies you and your ilk
have perpetrated on our country.

You see, Mr. Obama, I'm the guy you intend to raise taxes on. I'm the guy
who has spent 25 years toiling and sweating, fretting and fighting, stressing
and risking, to build a business and get ahead. I'm the guy who has been on the
very edge of bankruptcy more than a dozen times over the last 25 years, and all
the while creating more and more jobs for East Texans who didn't want to take a
risk, and wouldn't demand from themselves what I have demanded from myself. I'm
the guy you characterize as "the Americans who can afford it the most" that you
believe should be taxed more to provide income redistribution "to spread the
wealth" to those who have never toiled, sweated, fretted, fought, stressed, or
risked anything. You want to characterize me as someone who has enjoyed a life
of privilege and who needs to pay a higher percentage of my income than those
who have bought into your entitlement culture. I resent you, Mr. Obama, as I
resent all who want to use class warfare as a tool to advance their political
career. What's worse, each year more Americans buy into your liberal
entitlement culture, and turn to the government for their hope of a better life
instead of themselves. Liberals are succeeding through more than 40 years of
collaborative effort between the predominant liberal media, and liberal
indoctrination programs in the public school systems across our land.

What is so terribly sad about this is this. America was made great by
people who embraced the one-time American culture of self reliance, self
motivation, self determination, self discipline, personal betterment, hard work,
risk taking. A culture built around the concept that success was in reach on
every able bodied American who would strive for it. Each year that less
Americans embrace that culture, we all descend together. We descend down the
socialist path that has brought country after country ultimately to bitter and
unremarkable states. If you and your liberal comrades in the media and school
systems would spend half as much effort cultivating a culture of can-do across
America as you do cultivating your entitlement culture, we could see Americans
at large embracing the conviction that they can elevate themselves through
personal betterment, personal achievement, and self reliance. You see, when
people embrace such ideals, they act on them. When people act on such ideals,
they succeed. All of America could find herself elevating instead of
deteriorating. But that would eliminate the need for liberal politicians,
wouldn't it, Mr. Obama? The country would not need you if the country was
convinced that problem solving was best left with individuals instead of the
government. You and all your liberal comrades have got a vested interested in
creating a dependent class in our country. It is the very business of liberals
to create an ever expanding dependence on government. What's remarkable is that
you, who have never produced a job in your life, are going to tax me to take
more of my money and give it to people who wouldn't need my money if they would
get off their entitlement mentality asses and apply themselves at work, demand
more from themselves, and quit looking to liberal politicians to raise their
station in life.

You see, I know because I've had them work for me before. Hundreds of them over
these 25 years. People who simply will not show up to work on time. People who
just will not work 5 days in a week, much less, 6 days. People always looking
for a way to put less effort out. People who actually tell me that they would
do more if I just would first pay them more. People who take off work to sit in
government offices to apply to get free government handouts (gee, I wonder how
things would have turned out for them if they had spent that time earning money
and pleasing their employer?). You see, all of this comes from your entitlement
mentality culture.

Oh, I know you will say I am uncompassionate. Sorry, Mr. Obama, wrong again.
You see, I've seen what the average percentage of your income has been given to
charities over the years of 2000 to 2004 (ignoring the years you started running
for office - can you pronounce "politically motivated"), you averaged of less
than 1% annually. And your running mate, Joe Biden, averaged less than ¼% of
his annual income in charitable contributions over the last 10 years. Like so
many liberals, the two of you want to give to the needy, just as long as it is
someone else's money you are giving to them. I won't say what I have given to
charities over the last 25 years, but the percentage is several times more than
you or Joe Biden (don't you just hate goggle?). Tell me again how you feel my
pain.

In short, Mr. Obama, your political philosophies represent everything that is
wrong with our country. You represent the culture of government dependence
instead of self reliance; Entitlement mentality instead of personal
achievement; Penalization of the successful to reward the unmotivated;
Political correctness instead of open mindedness and open debate. If you are
successful, you may preside over the final transformation of America from being
the greatest and most self-reliant culture on earth, to just another country of
whiners and wimps, who sit around looking to the government to solve their
problems. Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All
countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less
to offer mankind every year.

God help us...

Cory Miller

just a ordinary, extraordinary American, the way a lot of Americans used to be.

P.S. Yes, Mr. Obama, I am a real American... www.cmillerdrilling.com
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

RIGHT ON BYRON!

Regards,
hm
 
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