Re: Handling coyotes Part II
- Thread starter bobcat
- Start date
Excellent again Wiley E. A comment on camo- I don't have any calling experience with camo, but do in other type of hunting- ducks, squirrels, turkeys and deer. In all cases, camo is vastly overrated- keeping still has always been the key- in most environments, the old fashion brown duck hunting coat and Jones style hat is as effective as anything.....trappnman
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Your American Heritage- Fur Trapping, Hunting and Fishing
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Your American Heritage- Fur Trapping, Hunting and Fishing
cedarchopper
New member
a little while back Azwill posted a survey asking what folks liked or would like to see added. I replied there was nothing I didn't like but "for christmas" i would like to see some scenarios to use as a primer. These may not be scenarios as such but-------
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ME!
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ME!
Wiley, all excellent advise.Camo is very overrated but I guess some people have got to keep these camo makers in business.LOL!And that (patent pending)WHOOOOP is one of the best ways to stop a coyote in it's tracks.I have used it for years and I swear by it.But you forgot one thing,ya gotta have that wind at your back.LOL!
I will give you an example.I was out calling yesterday and went to a good stand that I have called coyotes in before.The only problem was that the wind was blowing in my face.I thought "what the hell,I will call with the wind in my face for a change".Well about 7 minutes into the stand I hear a noise behind me and I look back and Mr. Coyoteee in standing 30 feet behind me, well needless to say by the time I got turned around all I was able to get was a running shot.And yes I missed.So that is why I like to call with the wind at my back.Alot of the coyotes that I've called in, like to get down wind so I like to be ready.LOL!I know there are certain times you have to call with the wind in your face but 95% of the time I like it on my back.I promise I am not trying to open a can of worms just my experience and opinion.LOL
[This message has been edited by UTcaller (edited 05-16-2001).]
[This message has been edited by UTcaller (edited 05-16-2001).]
Critr Gitr
New member
Good stuff, Wiley!!!
However, I used to wear jeans with the upper camoed, but I learned better! Now I wear camo pants, too.
The camo pants look better in the hero photos.........
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Critr
www.SaguaroSafaris.com
[This message has been edited by Critr Gitr (edited 05-16-2001).]
However, I used to wear jeans with the upper camoed, but I learned better! Now I wear camo pants, too.
The camo pants look better in the hero photos.........
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Critr
www.SaguaroSafaris.com
[This message has been edited by Critr Gitr (edited 05-16-2001).]
For consideration....
Camo head nets offer to serve a dual function when calling coyotes.
Not only will they camo your face for close-in work...
They help to keep the BUGS out of your ears, nose and off the back of your neck.
Tough to keep still when your getting swarmed by incessantly-pesky gnats, flies and 'skeeters. Even tougher to concentrate on fur when your fighting the urges to "swat" in an _effort_ to keep still.
anyway... just something to consider in warmer climates or warmer seasons at either longrange or shortrange calling/shooting conditions...
(hint, hint: like a certain Dec. Hunt ...)
Robb
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"Happiness... is a Target-Rich Environment"
Camo head nets offer to serve a dual function when calling coyotes.
Not only will they camo your face for close-in work...
They help to keep the BUGS out of your ears, nose and off the back of your neck.
Tough to keep still when your getting swarmed by incessantly-pesky gnats, flies and 'skeeters. Even tougher to concentrate on fur when your fighting the urges to "swat" in an _effort_ to keep still.
anyway... just something to consider in warmer climates or warmer seasons at either longrange or shortrange calling/shooting conditions...
(hint, hint: like a certain Dec. Hunt ...)
Robb
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"Happiness... is a Target-Rich Environment"
Great stuff, Wiley E.
How about covering your hands? Do you wear gloves, I do, or do you just keep one around to wave at running coyotes? LOL (Just kidding).
Or is wearing gloves a 'gimme'? You emphasize camo on the face and I understand that.
How about covering your hands?....Hern
How about covering your hands? Do you wear gloves, I do, or do you just keep one around to wave at running coyotes? LOL (Just kidding).
Or is wearing gloves a 'gimme'? You emphasize camo on the face and I understand that.
How about covering your hands?....Hern
I had a coyote hold up on me 2 days ago at about 200 yards. I was just getting ready to squeeze off when the coyote looked back over his shoulder. I fully expected another coyote to show up. The wind was blowing to the S/SE and this coyote was S/SW. About that time the wind switched to the S/SW and goodbye coyote. All I could do was cuss at the "downwind boys". LOL! Just when I start to question myself, reality slaps me in the face again. - Wiley E (former post)
I was out calling yesterday and went to a good stand that I have called coyotes in before.The only problem was that the wind was blowing in my face.I thought "what the hell,I will call with the wind in my face for a change".Well about 7 minutes into the stand I hear a noise behind me and I look back and Mr. Coyoteee in standing 30 feet behind me, well needless to say by the time I got turned around all I was able to get was a running shot.And yes I missed.So that is why I like to call with the wind at my back.Alot of the coyotes that I've called in, like to get down wind so I like to be ready.LOL!I know there are certain times you have to call with the wind in your face but 95% of the time I like it on my back.I promise I am not trying to open a can of worms just my experience and opinion.LOL - Utah Caller
Utah, Actually I do not consider this topic a can of worms but rather a vast learning experience. That former discussion was one of the most rewarding discussions for me that I personally have ever been engaged in. Too bad that it get's personal and pride gets in the way as I really believe there is a lot to learn on the subject.
First, I had to get past the notion that those who called "with the wind" were not off their rocker. LOL! Thanks to objective posts like yours and others, I reached that point. By the time we were done, I conceded that there are situations where "calling with the wind" may be more favorable. I truly recognize many of those situations. I have argued the logistics of calling "with the wind" (in certain situations) to many who still think it is a crazy idea. It all comes down to the variables one is presented in their particular area.
My continued disappointment on the subject comes from the lack of acknowledgement by the "with the wind" fans towards situations that are more favorable to calling "against the wind". There is 0 doubt in my mind as to the disastrous results of calling "with the wind" in this open country. I have been at this a long, long time and have many friends that have been too. When the wind changes directions, the results are the same FOR ME IN THIS OPEN COUNTRY!
Let's examine the situation you mention above and contrast it with the situation that I mentioned above. Let's also assume that each senerio has happened to each of us many times. Let's analyze the variables between the area you call and the area I call and teach a lot of others during the process.
Based on what you described above, I am guessing that you are calling in heavier cover where coyotes can show up in just about any direction. Correct me if I am wrong! With that cover readily available, I fully realize that coyotes will use it to their advantage and circle downwind to see what is there if they can. Another thing that comes to mind is that if a coyote has concealment that will hide him while he is circling, he is also less apt to leave the country after the slightest wisp of human odor. Higher coyote populations in areas where human odor is a normal part of daily coyote activity areas also creates more tolerance of human odor in certain areas.
Based on that, you have two distinct differences right there.
#1 A coyote security blanket in the form of concealment
#2 Less concern for human odor in areas of heavy cover and human frequency.
Now let's contrast that to more open country. In this area, you walk towards the coyote habitat. You are not surrounded by it. They rarely approach from behind you as you usually walk through open country. They do not have the cover to conveniently circle downwind of you. You would see them if they did. Not having that "security blanket" of cover, they will quickly air out at the slightest hint of human odor and many times it's out of gun range.
Now, I am quite sure about the habitat differences but you can correct me on the human odor frequency. I am convinced that these southern coyotes have adapted to their habitat a little differently. I have called a lot of coyotes in Wyoming during the National contest and found the results very similar. I will also say that in taller sage, I may have had coyotes circle downwind and never knew they were there.
That's why this topic intrigues me so much. I know that anyone will be more successful if they sort out the variables that are different from one area to another. Once they know the differences, they can sort out which technique (with the wind or against the wind) will make them more successful in those given circumstances.
Take it from there Utah and thank you for your objectivity and for standing your ground on the issue! That's how "hard heads" like me learn. LOL!
Hern, I do not use gloves either but I would in heavier cover. In the open country that I call, I can use them to help me stop coyotes in rifle range. By the time they are concerned with my moving hands, they are usually within gun range. I bet you have to chuckle to yourself about the coyote behavioral differences betweeen areas whether it's calling or trapping. Both camps have those who are entrenched. Cheers! Wiley E
[This message has been edited by Wiley E (edited 05-17-2001).]
I was out calling yesterday and went to a good stand that I have called coyotes in before.The only problem was that the wind was blowing in my face.I thought "what the hell,I will call with the wind in my face for a change".Well about 7 minutes into the stand I hear a noise behind me and I look back and Mr. Coyoteee in standing 30 feet behind me, well needless to say by the time I got turned around all I was able to get was a running shot.And yes I missed.So that is why I like to call with the wind at my back.Alot of the coyotes that I've called in, like to get down wind so I like to be ready.LOL!I know there are certain times you have to call with the wind in your face but 95% of the time I like it on my back.I promise I am not trying to open a can of worms just my experience and opinion.LOL - Utah Caller
Utah, Actually I do not consider this topic a can of worms but rather a vast learning experience. That former discussion was one of the most rewarding discussions for me that I personally have ever been engaged in. Too bad that it get's personal and pride gets in the way as I really believe there is a lot to learn on the subject.
First, I had to get past the notion that those who called "with the wind" were not off their rocker. LOL! Thanks to objective posts like yours and others, I reached that point. By the time we were done, I conceded that there are situations where "calling with the wind" may be more favorable. I truly recognize many of those situations. I have argued the logistics of calling "with the wind" (in certain situations) to many who still think it is a crazy idea. It all comes down to the variables one is presented in their particular area.
My continued disappointment on the subject comes from the lack of acknowledgement by the "with the wind" fans towards situations that are more favorable to calling "against the wind". There is 0 doubt in my mind as to the disastrous results of calling "with the wind" in this open country. I have been at this a long, long time and have many friends that have been too. When the wind changes directions, the results are the same FOR ME IN THIS OPEN COUNTRY!
Let's examine the situation you mention above and contrast it with the situation that I mentioned above. Let's also assume that each senerio has happened to each of us many times. Let's analyze the variables between the area you call and the area I call and teach a lot of others during the process.
Based on what you described above, I am guessing that you are calling in heavier cover where coyotes can show up in just about any direction. Correct me if I am wrong! With that cover readily available, I fully realize that coyotes will use it to their advantage and circle downwind to see what is there if they can. Another thing that comes to mind is that if a coyote has concealment that will hide him while he is circling, he is also less apt to leave the country after the slightest wisp of human odor. Higher coyote populations in areas where human odor is a normal part of daily coyote activity areas also creates more tolerance of human odor in certain areas.
Based on that, you have two distinct differences right there.
#1 A coyote security blanket in the form of concealment
#2 Less concern for human odor in areas of heavy cover and human frequency.
Now let's contrast that to more open country. In this area, you walk towards the coyote habitat. You are not surrounded by it. They rarely approach from behind you as you usually walk through open country. They do not have the cover to conveniently circle downwind of you. You would see them if they did. Not having that "security blanket" of cover, they will quickly air out at the slightest hint of human odor and many times it's out of gun range.
Now, I am quite sure about the habitat differences but you can correct me on the human odor frequency. I am convinced that these southern coyotes have adapted to their habitat a little differently. I have called a lot of coyotes in Wyoming during the National contest and found the results very similar. I will also say that in taller sage, I may have had coyotes circle downwind and never knew they were there.
That's why this topic intrigues me so much. I know that anyone will be more successful if they sort out the variables that are different from one area to another. Once they know the differences, they can sort out which technique (with the wind or against the wind) will make them more successful in those given circumstances.
Take it from there Utah and thank you for your objectivity and for standing your ground on the issue! That's how "hard heads" like me learn. LOL!
Hern, I do not use gloves either but I would in heavier cover. In the open country that I call, I can use them to help me stop coyotes in rifle range. By the time they are concerned with my moving hands, they are usually within gun range. I bet you have to chuckle to yourself about the coyote behavioral differences betweeen areas whether it's calling or trapping. Both camps have those who are entrenched. Cheers! Wiley E
[This message has been edited by Wiley E (edited 05-17-2001).]
Wiley, I feel the same way about this topic.I think the more a Coyote caller learns whether it be from experience in the field or by reading the posts of this forum,or by any other method(books,videos,talking to experienced callers etc.)it will definitely make him a better caller.There is alot of info that I have learned and used over the years for calling coyotes that has really benefited me and I have been rewarded with good success because of it.Now about the topic at hand.You are correct in your assumption that the country that I call is heavier.Mostly sage brush,grass,and scattered cedars.So I can see what you are saying about the Open country.I very rarely call in very open country,I don't think the coyotes relate to it as much as they do in your neck of the woods.And like you said, You know the direction of the coyotes you are calling to begin with. I can see how calling with the wind at your back in MOST situations would be counter productive in that type of country.Area is the big factor and you have definitely helped me realize that.I guess I just kinda like to pull your chain alittle.I even think Ed would agree if it wasn't for the pride thing...
[This message has been edited by UTcaller (edited 05-18-2001).]
[This message has been edited by UTcaller (edited 05-18-2001).]