/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gifI "think" I am ready to buy another rifle, but I "think" I would like a rifle over a 12 ga. or the revese. Not Savage! Low power scope maybe? Am not into carring two weapons. What about Valmet? ( is that the spelling) Those who carry combos, your info would be welcomed.
Which over and under
- Thread starter justshoot
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ARCOREY
New member
I'm shooting a Baikal (now called Spartan) 12 ga. 3" over 223 rem. Here's a link link 2 to the post of two of the foxes I killed with it. If you're not familiar with the combo guns, I'll tell you what I found out after purchasing mine. They are heavy, mine is nowhere near as light as my Mossberg 835 or the T/C carbine I use to carry calling. Mine kicks like a P.O.'d mule with the Dead Coyote 3" loads or anything in the shotgun barrel for that matter. The rifle barrel is thin, 3 shots is about all the shooting you're going to get without some cooling time between groups. The triggers are heavy. I was use to a tuned rifle trigger when I bought my combo. It took me some getting use to. My understanding is that it needs to be heavy to be safe when firing that blasting shotgun to prevent the rifle from firing accidentally. The biggest complaint you'll hear is that they don't hold zero after the shotgun blast. This can be avoided with good solid mounts and a good scope. Now it may sound as if I don't like mine, but I love it. Here in Virginia where I hunt, 100yds is about the longest predator shot you'll get for the most part. I use reduced loads with Blue Dot powder and Barnes Varmint Grenades or Berger 30 gr. hollowpoints and it is plenty accurate out to 100yds, I've killed a groundhog at 127 yds lazered with mine and shooting sticks with a 40 gr. v-max load I worked up. I'm using Millet windage adjustable rings and a Nikon Buckmasters 4x-12x-50mm side focus scope.
Hey, fellow PA guy, I'm right across the river from you - Dauphin County - small world!
I have 3 of said weapons, but have only got chance to run 1 much so far. I have a Tikka (222/12 - 2 3/4"), a Armsport (222/12 - 3" - made by Mirochi in Italy - sp?) and a Savage (222/20). The Tikka is the one I've used so far and it was doing about 3/4" 100yd. groups w/ factory Remingtons. The shotgun bbl. seemed to be off a bit, but I think it was just major bench flinching on my part in retesting and hindsite . The other 2 I plan on playing w/ a bit till fall here soon. The Tikka is the ugliest but works great, and has a nice trigger and side bbl. selector set-up, the Savage is the heaviest - weight and trigger, and the Armsport is the prettiest w/ double triggers to boot - instant selection! The Savages are reputed to have heavy gritty triggers that only clean up so well, and poor scope mounting systems. Both of the European arms I have have dovetailed mounts integral to the receiver and I haven't got to test the Armsport, but the Tikka has held up well so far. You'll need European style mounts for them - mounts from CZ or Tikka or Millet may work - you'll need to do a bit of measuring.
Scopes - I'd say low power, large FOV, shotgun scopes are recommended - normal rifle scopes may not be up to holding the reticle together with a shotgun recoil going on. Here in PA low power is all you're gonna need to the 300 yards or so we may get on a varmint, and under 100 is much more probable. Hard to find shotgun scopes w/ less than heavy reticles tho - some calls to customer service in the various scope manufacturer's should be real helpful tho. Good quality solid and steel mounting systems are the order of the day as far as withstanding recoil is concerned too.
Valmet - excellent quality, but pricey from what Ive heard, and for even more money, you can get various bbl. combo's too.
Hope this helps some. Good luck. Maybe we can hook up for some calling this winter!
I have 3 of said weapons, but have only got chance to run 1 much so far. I have a Tikka (222/12 - 2 3/4"), a Armsport (222/12 - 3" - made by Mirochi in Italy - sp?) and a Savage (222/20). The Tikka is the one I've used so far and it was doing about 3/4" 100yd. groups w/ factory Remingtons. The shotgun bbl. seemed to be off a bit, but I think it was just major bench flinching on my part in retesting and hindsite . The other 2 I plan on playing w/ a bit till fall here soon. The Tikka is the ugliest but works great, and has a nice trigger and side bbl. selector set-up, the Savage is the heaviest - weight and trigger, and the Armsport is the prettiest w/ double triggers to boot - instant selection! The Savages are reputed to have heavy gritty triggers that only clean up so well, and poor scope mounting systems. Both of the European arms I have have dovetailed mounts integral to the receiver and I haven't got to test the Armsport, but the Tikka has held up well so far. You'll need European style mounts for them - mounts from CZ or Tikka or Millet may work - you'll need to do a bit of measuring.
Scopes - I'd say low power, large FOV, shotgun scopes are recommended - normal rifle scopes may not be up to holding the reticle together with a shotgun recoil going on. Here in PA low power is all you're gonna need to the 300 yards or so we may get on a varmint, and under 100 is much more probable. Hard to find shotgun scopes w/ less than heavy reticles tho - some calls to customer service in the various scope manufacturer's should be real helpful tho. Good quality solid and steel mounting systems are the order of the day as far as withstanding recoil is concerned too.
Valmet - excellent quality, but pricey from what Ive heard, and for even more money, you can get various bbl. combo's too.
Hope this helps some. Good luck. Maybe we can hook up for some calling this winter!
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kunas
New member
i know you say no savages but mine is my combo gun that i use all the time. it is the 223/12guage it does kick but all combos ive shot has a thump to them i have a valmet 412s 222-12 gauge that i love but for me it is to pretty and expensive to drag around predator hunting. i have several nice predator hunting rigs but i usually find my self going back to the cheaper guns to hunt with synthetic stock beaters that i cant do harm to if i have to belly stalk to me the savage is the ultimate combo gun for predators i shot a coyote this spring while huting turkeys with it at about 88 yards with the 223 just my 2 cents
Ridge Runner
New member
to pretty and expensive, Nah, my 412 has saw the demise of many many turkey gobblers, I pinted it the day I brought it home, its since had a bansner yurkey/predator choke put in and a fajen high comb monte carlo stock, its worn a 2.5x8 loopy in modified ruger rings for the last 10 years or so
RR
RR
I have several friends with Valmets. One 30-06 12Ga and another 243 12Ga, One made by Valmet for Savage I believe in 308. Another buddy has a Savage 30-30 12Ga. The Savage with reloads and pointed bullets is a tack driver. The Valmets seem to shoot well.
I tried to find a used Valmet but they are too expensive usually well over $1000 so I purchased the Remington Spartan SPR94 in 12Ga/308 for $500. Not sure you can get them new in .308 any more. There is an Italian company that bought the tooling for the Valmet 412. I think the price is around $1600 for a new one.
The Spartan is around 8lbs. I do not know what a Valmet weighs but they are significantly heaver than the Spartan. The Valmet is a higher quality gun but I like the Spartan and it shoots well.
ARCOREY what rings are you using? I have been having a tough time finding rings or adapters for my gun. The 11mm rail means air rifle rings.
I tried to find a used Valmet but they are too expensive usually well over $1000 so I purchased the Remington Spartan SPR94 in 12Ga/308 for $500. Not sure you can get them new in .308 any more. There is an Italian company that bought the tooling for the Valmet 412. I think the price is around $1600 for a new one.
The Spartan is around 8lbs. I do not know what a Valmet weighs but they are significantly heaver than the Spartan. The Valmet is a higher quality gun but I like the Spartan and it shoots well.
ARCOREY what rings are you using? I have been having a tough time finding rings or adapters for my gun. The 11mm rail means air rifle rings.
Ridge Runner
New member
look at ruger #1 rings, a lil work required but nothing to technical, I used a file and a 3/8" drill with appropriate bit to modify them to my valmet.
RR
RR
ARCOREY
New member
I used the Millet windage adjustable steel rings and torqued them down real hard. Hindsight being what it is and knowing Ridge Runner's reputation with firearms from past posts, his method is probably better. I found this with a quick search, looks pricy though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif.
Are they the low or mid profile rings? I bought adapters to adapt to Weaver base made by B-Square and they were cheap aluminum and the threads stripped with just light pressure with a Allen wrench. Baikal recommends B-Square rings but now I am a bit scared of their products.
FYI: The stock tubes did not work well with Buckshot so I purchased aftermarket choke tubes.
http://rodney.davisnetworks.com/web/patterns/
FYI: The stock tubes did not work well with Buckshot so I purchased aftermarket choke tubes.
http://rodney.davisnetworks.com/web/patterns/
crowpopper
New member
Quote:
I'm shooting a Baikal (now called Spartan) 12 ga. 3" over 223 rem. Here's a link link 2 to the post of two of the foxes I killed with it. If you're not familiar with the combo guns, I'll tell you what I found out after purchasing mine. They are heavy, mine is nowhere near as light as my Mossberg 835 or the T/C carbine I use to carry calling. Mine kicks like a P.O.'d mule with the Dead Coyote 3" loads or anything in the shotgun barrel for that matter. The rifle barrel is thin, 3 shots is about all the shooting you're going to get without some cooling time between groups. The triggers are heavy. I was use to a tuned rifle trigger when I bought my combo. It took me some getting use to. My understanding is that it needs to be heavy to be safe when firing that blasting shotgun to prevent the rifle from firing accidentally. The biggest complaint you'll hear is that they don't hold zero after the shotgun blast. This can be avoided with good solid mounts and a good scope. Now it may sound as if I don't like mine, but I love it. Here in Virginia where I hunt, 100yds is about the longest predator shot you'll get for the most part. I use reduced loads with Blue Dot powder and Barnes Varmint Grenades or Berger 30 gr. hollowpoints and it is plenty accurate out to 100yds, I've killed a groundhog at 127 yds lazered with mine and shooting sticks with a 40 gr. v-max load I worked up. I'm using Millet windage adjustable rings and a Nikon Buckmasters 4x-12x-50mm side focus scope.
i had the spartan 12 ga 3-1/2" over 30.06
i had shoot through rings so i had open sights for the 12 and scope for the 30.06 never had a proble with zero
but this gun did kick something awful even the 30.06 kicked
i sold it cause i needed money but i did love the gun
with xtra full choke it was a 50 yd turkey gun
and the 06 shot moa
I'm shooting a Baikal (now called Spartan) 12 ga. 3" over 223 rem. Here's a link link 2 to the post of two of the foxes I killed with it. If you're not familiar with the combo guns, I'll tell you what I found out after purchasing mine. They are heavy, mine is nowhere near as light as my Mossberg 835 or the T/C carbine I use to carry calling. Mine kicks like a P.O.'d mule with the Dead Coyote 3" loads or anything in the shotgun barrel for that matter. The rifle barrel is thin, 3 shots is about all the shooting you're going to get without some cooling time between groups. The triggers are heavy. I was use to a tuned rifle trigger when I bought my combo. It took me some getting use to. My understanding is that it needs to be heavy to be safe when firing that blasting shotgun to prevent the rifle from firing accidentally. The biggest complaint you'll hear is that they don't hold zero after the shotgun blast. This can be avoided with good solid mounts and a good scope. Now it may sound as if I don't like mine, but I love it. Here in Virginia where I hunt, 100yds is about the longest predator shot you'll get for the most part. I use reduced loads with Blue Dot powder and Barnes Varmint Grenades or Berger 30 gr. hollowpoints and it is plenty accurate out to 100yds, I've killed a groundhog at 127 yds lazered with mine and shooting sticks with a 40 gr. v-max load I worked up. I'm using Millet windage adjustable rings and a Nikon Buckmasters 4x-12x-50mm side focus scope.
i had the spartan 12 ga 3-1/2" over 30.06
i had shoot through rings so i had open sights for the 12 and scope for the 30.06 never had a proble with zero
but this gun did kick something awful even the 30.06 kicked
i sold it cause i needed money but i did love the gun
with xtra full choke it was a 50 yd turkey gun
and the 06 shot moa
ARCOREY
New member
I think I used high rings to clear the 50mm scope. I shot a load of Dead Coyote T shot in 3" through mine last week. OO and #4 buck were a big dissapointment with the stock choke, but the T shot was awesome in my modified stock choke. I can't wait to try it with the stock full choke. I got 11 pellets in a 12" circle at 50 yds with the modified /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif. I can't afford to test too much with the price of that stuff, one more test with the full and then it's nothin' but fur.
11 pellets in a 12 inch circle sounds good to me. Just make sure the pattern is even. I ended up buying a Trulock extended Full and a Turkey tube and they shot 4 buck, OO buck, #4 and #6 Turkey and BB loads well. For some reason the Federal Premium Buckshot did not work well but the cheaper Remington buckshot was best. Check out the link I posted.
I have the PH12700(full), PH12670 (ex-full) and PH12690 (Turkey) chokes. The PH12670 .670 0.060 constriction Turkey choke Mr. Trulock said should work well for 4 Buck but may or may not work for OO Buck. He recommended the PH12690 Extra full for OO Buck. Turned out the Turkey tube (his most open Turkey choke option) worked the best for everything and was equal to the ex-full with OO buck. The Turkey choke extends about 1 1/2" inches past the end of the barrel and adds some weight. The Extra Full choke extends about 3/4" past the barrel and the extra weight is not noticeable. He has tighter Turkey chokes but they are not recommended for buck shot. He recommended PH12670 for dead coyote and 4,5,6 shot Turkey loads and PH12665 for #6 heavy shot turkey loads.
He has a forum on www.shotgunworld.com and will answer individual posts/questions.
He has a forum on www.shotgunworld.com and will answer individual posts/questions.