Gun for 1000 Yard Prairie Dogs?

outdoorsjoe222

outdoorsjoe222

New member
I went for my first Prairie Dog hunt in South Dakota this year and shot some dogs over 500 yards with the .223 and the .204. For the next trip I want to try and break 1000 yards. I am totally new to the long range game and am hoping to get some advice.

*I was wondering what caliber of gun, I was thinking about a 6mmBR or a 6.5X47

*Would you buy a used gun (Remington 700 or Savage) then put a better stock and rebarrel if necessary or would you buy a Savage LRPV or 12F in 6mmBr and call it good?

*Would a Leupold VXIII be good enough for dialing in hundreds of shots per year or do you need to spend more money?

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated since most of you all know alot more about long range than I do.

Thanks
 
Fast twist 22/6mm AI with long heavy high BC pills. Also assuming your rifle is capable sub MOA.

6 BR and 6.5 Lapua lack oomph, you need large case capacity with long skinny bullets to have any consistency at 1000 yds. Not that you couldn't connect on occasion at the 4 digit ranges with lesser capacity cartridges but you will be better suited and thus a better chance to hit your intended target vs. relying on Murphys law or your lucky rabbits foot.
Of course optics of high end quality are needed as well as the ability accurately range your target and know where your bullet is hitting at that particular range. Bullet drop beyond 500 yds. is more easily measured in feet than in inches.
 
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I went for my first Prairie Dog hunt in South Dakota this year and shot some dogs over 500 yards with the .223 and the .204. For the next trip I want to try and break 1000 yards. I am totally new to the long range game and am hoping to get some advice.



Addicting, ain't it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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*I was wondering what caliber of gun, I was thinking about a 6mmBR or a 6.5X47



The 6mmBR is an excellent choice if it's a heavy rifle - you want to see your misses in the scope - if you don't, you might as well be throwing rocks.

The 6.5x47 has some disadvantages - lack of very fragile varmint bullets is the main one, and recoil is the second.

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*Would you buy a used gun (Remington 700 or Savage) then put a better stock and rebarrel if necessary or would you buy a Savage LRPV or 12F in 6mmBr and call it good?



I would buy the heaviest Savage in 6mmBR that they make... "and call it good".

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*Would a Leupold VXIII be good enough for dialing in hundreds of shots per year or do you need to spend more money?



A Leupold VX-III in 6.5x20 is more than enough. It is repeatable and you can't use more magnification on the prairie because of mirage.

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Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated since most of you all know a lot more about long range than I do.

Thanks



Yeah...

Don't think you can fight the wind with long-assed bullets... you cannot.

When you are shooting that far, at small targets, you cannot judge the wind to even get within feet of a 4" wide target, so shooting 115gr bullets out of a 6mm rifle is a waste, plus they don't open on PDs.

-

When I made my first trip to South Dakota to whack Prairie Dogs, I was pretty green - I could hit small fuzzy things at a long range, cuz I was a crow (with a rifle) and woodchuck shooter in New England.

But I NEVER saw wind like the wind in SoDak. If your truck had all four tires on the ground more than 75% of the time, the weather guy called a "calm day".

Our first three or four days, we would pull up to a town, unload out kit, and start shooting.

We were using top quality benchrest grade rifles, but the hit ratio was low, and fighting 20 to 35+ mph winds got pretty old pretty fast.

After four days, we figured out this thing with a string.

We got a 3 foot stick, and tied a few feet of light string on it.

Then, when we pulled up to a town, we would park the truck on the up wind side of the town, so the wind was blowing over our backs, towards the middle of the town.

Then we would plant the stick in front of the shooters.

We would shoot the part of the town that the string pointed to... so we were always shooting with NO windage correction - it was pure heaven. We started hitting PDs at ranges that I won't mention here, cuz you wouldn't believe it.

We started calling it "The String of Death"

The only way to beat the wind, is not to let it play with your bullets.

Always have the wind at your back and shoot straight with the wind - then you only (ONLY?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) have elevation to deal with.

If you do it right, you can take PDs at 1,000yds with a benchrest grade .223.

What IS important for those ranges are loads with tiny ES and SDs... you don't want to see a shot that is 6" over and hold down 6" low, and hit 18" low because the velocity of the second shot was 50fps slower than the first.

You don't need power (PDs don't take much killin'), you need repeatability with a rifle that is comfortable to shoot, doesn't heat up fast, and allows you to spot your own misses.

Ranging is one of the biggest problems... unless you have a Wild or Barr & Stroud optical rangefinder, you are just guessing - the laser rangefinders are all but useless past 300yds on the prairie.

.
 
Mostly a waste of time. With bench records hovering in the 4 to 6 inch range hitting a 4 inch wide PD consistently is more luck than shooting skill. If you check out some of the bench rest sites it'll give you an insight into some of the necessary equipment used for the needed accuracy.

Your looking at a pretty good investment into equipment too for low percentage shooting. Some of the new guns developed on the 50 machine gun case such as the new 416 seem to carry well at those distances along with the 6.5 by 284 used in long range bench rest competition. Scopes in the 24 to 45 power range such as used in long range bench competition should work.

Frankly it's a nice idea, but equipment costs for that extra 400 yards seems out of reason to me. Far better to concentrate on reasonable ranges and have much more versatile equipment.
 
338 Lapua, are you kidding me??? Waaaaaaay to much gun for PDogs at that distance. A good 6mm caliber of some sort is all you need with a good scope. A vx3 LR scope is a great scope for LR shooting and the adjustments will hold up fine for years of "clicking". Like catshooter said, you need light recoil to spot your misses, something that dont heat up fast because you'll be shooting at least 5-6 shot strings quickly at them, and you dont need a ton of power to knock over a 2lb prairie dog. The wind will be the biggest factor and once again, like catshooter suggested, you need to set up with the winds. You could probly get at least 1 pdog in 50 attempts at 1K relatively easy. Its not as hard as some portray it to be...

Theres a lot of other things that are a waste of money, but to each his own. LR shooting is the greatest and its quite addicting, watch out!
 
Bob...

1,000yd Benchrest records are just over an inch. "F" class shooters are ripping the centers out of 5" X-rings at 1,000yds - that's a 75+% hit ratio on a 4" wide PD.

And a 45x scope over 1,000yds of prairie???.. all you will see is boiling mush.

You haven't shot PDs at long range... have you?



.
 
Im betting the Swaro will get you 1000 yard readings on the prairie. I have one and its ranged out to 1900+ yards over open wheat fields plenty of times, and it does it within about 1 second. Its well worth the $900 investment.
 
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I'm betting the Swaro will get you 1000 yard readings on the prairie. I have one and its ranged out to 1900+ yards over open wheat fields plenty of times, and it does it within about 1 second. Its well worth the $900 investment.



It's not the quality of the laser - it's that the you are ranging over flat ground and getting false reflections off of everything as the beam skims over the ground... plus, you can't get a laser reflection off of a 4" PD at 1,000yds, even if you hang it on a string in the air. Not enough energy is reflected back.

I have a military AN/GVS-5 laser rangefinder that is accurate to with 30 feet at 6 miles, and it is useless on a dog town.

All these ideas about expensive lasers and 45x scopes sound great...
... until you have been there.

.
 
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338 Lapua, are you kidding me??? Waaaaaaay to much gun for PDogs at that distance. , but to each his own. LR shooting is the greatest and its quite addicting, watch out!



What can i say i like big rifles with heavy bullets, makes marking you shots way out there much easier. The man want to kill a dog at 1000 yards . He can use his use pewee cal. for closer range.
 
If you have a good spotter, some time, and throw enough lead in the air, I figure you can get it done. I was having trouble at 500yds, so good luck. Mirage is the tough part, try early in the morning.
 
Just so happens I was at a 3 day 1000yd regional Palma/F class match a few weeks ago. Just to see whats up with LR competion. I scored,spotted and worked the pits (pulled targets). Palma (iron sights) is shot with a 308 Win. with about a 175 grn match bullet. The key is to keep the bullet supersonic...above 1200 fps if I remember correctly. Otherwise the bullet does some nasty things (tumbling?). In a 308, muzzel velosity needs to at 2600 fps...max loading for that grn bullet per Sierra ballistics program. 2600fps @1000yrds = 1241fps. Bullet drop is 438" and bullet drift is about 48" per 5mph 9:00 cross wind! If your VXIII will give you at least 13 moa elevation you maybe all right. If not a set of Burris Signature offset rings will work, so I was told. Or you may need a set of 20moa scope bases. I was also told a 20x or 24x scope will work...keep in mind the black 7 ring is approx.40" in dia.. I was able to spot the shot markers, 4" dia. white on a black target at 15x to 20x spotting scope. A Pd will be very hard to spot, odds are you will be targeting their mound and need a spotter for sure...sounds like alot of fun!
I don't remember if any of the F class (optical) shooters were shooting any 6MMs maybe a 6MM284. Most were 308,30.06 and a couple of 284 Wins.
In Michigan we only have one 1000yd range...just so happens I only live 15mi from it. Bad thing is it's not open to the public, it's a National Gaurd range. So to practice I was advised to shoot at a 600yd range or practice with a 22lr at 100yds with a regulation target. A sub moa rifle will be a must. In my case you could put the best bench rest rifle money can buy in my hands and I still may not hit a 5" x ring but it will sure be fun trying! I recomend anybody interested should go check out a 1000yd competion.
Great people and lots of fun...don't forget your spotting scope though!
Once again sorry for being LONG WINDED!
 
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All these ideas about expensive lasers and 45x scopes sound great...
... until you have been there.



I'm turning my scopes down to 12-15X by noon on 250 yd. shots.

45X, don't think so, unless you are out shortly after dawn.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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One question, how the heck do you even see a prarie dog at 1000 yards? Big AZZ scope and maybe a loooonggg barrel



Here's a 975 yard view through my Leupold VX-III 8.5-25x50. You just have to squint /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
scopepic975.jpg
 
Been there, done that.
It is not worth the effort or the money.

To be even moderately successful(not one lucky shot out of 50) will require a lot of money and even more dedication. You need the best rifle money can build, but that is just the start. You also need a good setup which means: bench, rests, wind flags, a ballistics program running on a laptop and an optical rangefinder such as a Barr & Stroud with a heavy tripod.

The dedication part is even harder. You have to be set up to shoot at first light before the wind and mirage get bad. That means you will probably have to camp out at the town or leave your motel for the previously scouted town in the wee hours of the morning. If you get an hour of good shooting conditions, it is a great day.

It certainly can be done but requires lots of time, effort and money.

Jack
 
You can't get any closer? Or just trying to test your rifle and skills at 1K?

Remember, 1 MOA @ 1000yds is a little over 10".
 
I'm with Jack on this subject. Its not as easy as it sounds.
I shoot 1000 yd competition, with full blown BR rifles and I could probably hit a prairie dog with some regularity AFTER I got the rifle tuned in to the range and the conditions. That would be something like shooting 5-10 rounds in tuning and then 1 hit out of 3-4 rounds. With a $4000.00 rifle, don't seem worth it, thats why I don't do it.
 
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