Hey Byron South

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George do you really think Pressure is the problem or lack of coyotes on PA's part?? You can't really pressure what isn't there right?

Wouldn't you think the contrast between the two states in coyote numbers would be far greater than even the contrast in hunter numbers?

I would think throwing out numbers for a state as a whole could be mis-leading. West TX, I am sure could make up in Avgerage where any other part of the state might be lacking, just due to the sheer volume of animals. No different than Southern CA, would make up for average in other parts of our state.

I agree that pressure could have a huge affect on success, but in reality I think pressure has a way less affect on success than population does.

Thanks for sharing the numbers that you did, I am very surprised seeing that PA leads the country in Deer vs. Car incidents that you have to buy a doe tag every time you wan't to kill one.. Unfortunate
 
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George do you really think Pressure is the problem or lack of coyotes on PA's part?? You can't really pressure what isn't there right?




THEY ARE HERE!!
trappers take them ,all the time I know a guy that traps like 20 a year and herd of many others taken them with traps on a regular basses ,,

the theory of them not being here in number , is a untruth...there are many coyotes in PA and just about if not all county's . I think my family's first coyote kill was in 64 in PA

I feel good enough about are population to say PA is one of the top 5 coyote states east of the big river
 
In 07 PA deer hunters harvested 323,070 deer ,witch was 11 percent down from 06

Also, see i was in west Texas and from what i seen there are lots of sheep ranches out there and on alot of places coyotes are hard to find but found lots of foxes and cats
 
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Deer hunters in the firearm season take a good many coyotes (and some let them lay /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif)

There are around 900,000 hunters in the woods of PA on the first day of Firearm season. How many coyotes do you think are killed,shot at, and ran around? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Trappers do take a few also. SC PA is hit pretty hard with trappers.
 
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when it comes to hunting AND wildlife there is no place in Texas like anywhere in PA



I can't say for sure, because I have not been to Penn. but my guess is that East Texas would be similar, but with less agriculture than Penn.

George, have you ever been to the "other Texas"?


Texas is 5th in number of B&C deer ever recorded.

http://www.boone-crockett.org/bgRecords/records_whitetail.asp?area=bgRecords

Take out that 20% of the state that is south Texas, and it looks just like the rest of country.

whitetailmaps.jpg


Texas harvests somewhere over 400,000 deer a year. About half of teh state has a 1 buck limit.


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At last count in 1990, the state's total coyote population was 15,000 to 20,000.




http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_376971.html


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The state's coyote harvest is the highest it's ever been," Hardisky noted. "We took more than 12,300 coyotes last year[2002], which is up from 10,000 two years ago. In 1990, about 1,800 coyotes were taken in the Commonwealth. Today, there are about 36,000 hunters and trappers who pursue coyotes here. That compares with 7,800 in 1990. People are really becoming interested in this species.



http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?A=11&Q=157419&pp=12&n=1


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In 2005, hunters and trappers harvested more than 20,000 coyotes statewide, according to agency Game-Take and Fur-Taker Survey results.



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We've also liberalized hunting seasons. Coyotes can be hunted year-round with few exceptions and there are no bag limits. Our coyote population can handle this pressure because it's underutilized and very resilient.




http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=458&q=163663

I'd say based on these figures, the hunting is only getting better.
 
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I have been to PA back in 1987 I called lots of coons, both types of fox, 1 bobcat and 1 coyote during a 2 week period on public land. At the time I couldn't afford to buy a hunting permit and it was June, in fact I could just barely afford to be there. Boredom over took me and I always had my Burnham brothers call in my pocket. The biggest difference I could see in PA and East Texas is that the women in Texas looked much better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. Of course I didn't know Foxy Tracks or any of the Foxpro girls /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif back then, heck some of them probably weren't born yet. So no offense to you gals.

Also I can't remember exactly what part of PA I was in and Michelle wont let me ask the girl I chased out there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif! The only thing I can remember is there was a lake there called Red House lake. There was also a tourist park called Griffith's park {it was full of welded statues} I believe it may have actually been in upstate NY, but the calling was just across the border in PA I know because I did have my $10 PA fishing permit. 1 other thing I remember is lots of ground hogs and tons of little tiny wild strawberries that were out of this world good, nearly made myself sick eating them.
I can tell you this about PA and upstate NY, it is some of the most beautiful country I have seen. The Terrain is very similar to East Texas at least the part I was in, didn't see all of either state.

I doubt all of this will ever be agreed on. The one thing I know we can all agree on is that the Eastern coyote is Genetically Smarter than any other coyote in the world, probably all the wolf DNA! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

IS IT FALL YET? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Just for the heck of it i googled Red House Lake and came up with a bunch of hits saying its in The Allegany State Forest just over the PA border Salamanca, NY Never been out that way but I hear its some nice country. Now lets see some pics of these FoxPro ladies /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Nice isn't the word for it, it is absolutely beautiful country a little more hills than East Texas if I remember right!

Some of the Foxpro girls are members here. All of them I've seen are cuties!
 
Yellowhammer, as usual, always quick with some data.

So is this a lot of coyotes or not?

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In 2005, hunters and trappers harvested more than 20,000 coyotes statewide, according to agency Game-Take and Fur-Taker Survey results.

 
Oh by the way that sounds like the place, I wasn't paying much attention I was interested in something else at the time would have been better sticking to hunting.
 
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At last count in 1990, the state's total coyote population was 15,000 to 20,000



first thing . and since you in the biz, how do yo count coyote number? answer, you cant!!
they are taken a educated guess,, that isn't very educated !!!
HOW DO YOU GUYS IN THE BIZ DO IT DOWN THERE COUNT COYOTES NUMBERS???????
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In 2005, hunters and trappers harvested more than 20,000 coyotes statewide


yea about 18000 OF them where trapped !
I DIDNT SAY THEY ARENT HERE /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
And again it all a guess there is no tag for coyotes, no report cards no nothing ,,where are these guys coming up with the number tell me how they know how many coyotes where taken?????YOU GOING TO TELL ME YOU GUYS IN TEXAS CAN COUNT YOUR COYOTE THAT WERE HARVEST ???SO
HOW DO YOU THINK THEY DO IT HERE?????

I SAID THIS
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when it comes to hunting AND wildlife there is no place in Texas like anywhere in PA




AGAIN YOU GUYS MIST THE POINT SO I WILL EXPLAIN

The hunting part of the sentience means we have to different styles of hunting ..
1, we cant drive to are stands we walk for miles sometimes and in below zero days .
2, we don't hunt over feeders,
3,most PA hunter hunt public land if you feel that hunting deer on public land is the same as hunting like most Texans do either behind a fence or in a 4000 archer pen over a timed feeder on a lease you are sadly mistaken ..
4, are gun season is for 2 weeks , what is yours?
5, on opening day when you get to the wood you park with 25 other trucks and head in the woods
25 trucks minimal of 2 guys per truck that means 50 guys are walking in the wood that morning
SO WHERE ARE YOU HUNTING LIKE THIS???????????
SO YOU DONT GOME CLOSE TO BEING ANYTHING LIKE HERE!!!!!!
NOW THE WILD LIFE PART OF THAT SENTINCE
1, do to pressure any game animal is harder to kill by any methods,,ANY WHERE IN THE WORLD!!!! the game in PA are way more pressured then what you are hunting!!!!!
YOU STARTING TO SEE WHAT I AM SAYING /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

So no you ant hunting anything like here,,
you can make your self feel good and say they are just as hard there,, but thats all your doing is making your self feel good!!!!that's all!!!
NOW LETS GET THIS STRAIT, I ANT SAYING COYOTE AND DEER ARE HARDER IN PA TO KILL THEN ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY JUST TEXAS!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Guess said

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I called lots of coons, both types of fox, 1 bobcat and 1 coyote during a 2 week period on public land.



Georges answer to that is nothing less then you would get from guys around a deer camp just 3 questions
1, being , you have photo??????
2, then we dont wont to hear about it
3, being , talk is cheep,

and about the woman of my fine state ,, will you may have been messing around Glen Guessy
BUT YOU ONLY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT BECOUSE YOUR SAYING IT FROM 2000 MILES AWAY BUDDYBOY , GOT IT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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Yellowhammer, as usual, always quick with some data.

So is this a lot of coyotes or not?


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In 2005, hunters and trappers harvested more than 20,000 coyotes statewide, according to agency Game-Take and Fur-Taker Survey results.






SORLOSER,
See i thought you would know better

you think they know how many coyote there is ???
please tell me how.

they dont even know how many are killed!!!
you thnk there is guys out there counting coyotes

come on!!!!!!!

and i told you in the other post we have lots of them

sit back ant say to your self ,just how do they count coyotes?
 
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George you take life way to serious man. If you ever meet me you'll find I'm just as belligerent in person. It's all in good fun. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Actually I've been calling predators since 83-84, I never took pictures of "bottom feeders" which is what predator hunting was considered here back then. I never took a picture of anything till the 90's except my hounds. Didn't even own a camera any picture I've got prior to the 90's someone else took. Heck I didn't own a computer till 2001 maybe later can't remember for sure. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

seriously though I saw 2 good lookin women while I was there 1 came with me and the other was her cousin. Maybe I just wasn't in the right place after all the girl I was with was the guide She may have had her own agenda! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Edited to say: heck I don't have pictures of them either maybe they didn't exist? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Man I sure got a good imagintation if they didn't! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

gotta go back to work now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif catcha later.
 
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oops 1 more thing Yellowhammer, I am kind of curious about the data collected on hogs and coyotes in Texas.
I've been helping the TP&W collect data on Deer for years, so I know how that is done but we never count anything else used to count fur bearers.
Just curious if you have any info there I see the numbers put out in litterature but don't know how they come by it.
 
George, my intent is certainly not to rile you up. I believe that if you review the links, they say that those numbers are based off of hunter surveys and/or furbuyer reports.

I am sure that the majority of those were trapped. My point was that it appears that the PA coyote population is rising at a almost unbelievable rate.

The estimated harvest in 2005 was about the same as the entire estimated population in 1990.

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HOW DO YOU GUYS IN THE BIZ DO IT DOWN THERE COUNT COYOTES NUMBERS??????



I believe that it is probably the same in most states, and based on hunter and trapper surveys, and/or fur harvester reports.

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if you feel that hunting deer on public land is the same as hunting like most Texans do either behind a fence or in a 4000 archer pen over a timed feeder on a lease you are sadly mistaken



I think you are like most people who are not familiar with Texas who think that all of Texas is as you describe above.

Only about 2-3% of Texas is high fenced. Most people outside of Texas believe it to be much higher.

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are gun season is for 2 weeks , what is yours?




In general (including archery, rifle and muzzle loader) about 3 months. On some properties, it might be 5 months.

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on opening day when you get to the wood you park with 25 other trucks and head in the woods
25 trucks minimal of 2 guys per truck that means 50 guys are walking in the wood that morning
SO WHERE ARE YOU HUNTING LIKE THIS???????????



I'm not sure what hunter density that is equal too, since you did not say how big the area those 50 people were hunting on is. I can tell you here where I am, that the average hunting lease (usually industrial timberland) has about 1-2 hunters per 100 acres. Some smaller properties may have as many as 5 or 6 people per 100 acres or higher.
 
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I wasn't paying much attention I was interested in something else at the time would have been better sticking to hunting.



OK LET ME GET THIS STRAIT,, You followed a girl from Texas to PA we are saying around 1700 miles
in the quote you say ( interested in something else at the time )
but you had time to call in LOTS OF COONS BOBCAT, COYOTE RED AND GRAY FOX,, IN 2 WEEK HERE

Glenn you have to know your starting to look foolish , all that in 2 weeks and at the same time trying to show interested in a girl you travels 1700 miles to be with LOL

IS IT ONLY ME THAT SEE'S THOUGH THIS STUFF!!!

Please if you writing stuff like this for hunting mags ,,what has the hunting would come to..
 
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Ya'll give me time to catch up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif there were about 5 or 6 posts made while I was making mine.
 
I wish I knew George, I wish I knew. Of course the numbers are going to be off one way or another, no different than Guesstemating the deer or waterfowl populations.

But I'm not asking about the coyote population in the quote you provided, I just want to know if killing 20,000 coyotes in PA is a lot or not. 20,000 seems to be a number the GC came up with through surveys, now of course they aren't going to be precise, but yet again a GUESSTIMATE. The same estemate that are used to set seasons for other types of game, including the ones I already listed.

I'm only after answers.. So lets say the kill number was off by a very generous 1,000. Is 21,000 a lot of killed coyotes for PA? Shoot, maybe that question can't be answered since it's impossible to count coyotes.

Also, LOTS OF THEM is all relative.
 
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So is this a lot of coyotes or not?


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In 2005, hunters and trappers harvested more than 20,000 coyotes statewide, according to agency Game-Take and Fur-Taker Survey results.


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Good question. I'm not sure what the comparable number would be for Texas.
 
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