Cfe 223 and hot weather

Posted by: dennyd

Cfe 223 and hot weather - 07/31/15 09:54 PM

Anybody else notice this, i can go from 27.5 grs of cfe in the wintertime and be fine with just about any 55 gr bullet, several times this summer my primers are flatened to beyond flat, they will never hold a primer, i had to back down to 25.7 and i still think it's to much.
This powder will never sit well with me, idk but if i wait and use them 25.7 loads in the winter they might not even function my ar's. I am done with this stuff.
Posted by: Smokeless

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 07/31/15 09:59 PM

What does the firing pin strike look like?
Posted by: dennyd

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 07/31/15 10:32 PM

The case's won't hold a new primer, cases ejecting at 12-1 o'clock was my first clue, hiting all over the bull was my second clue, primer falling out of 1 of the cases that was fired only 2 times my third clue, never had any problem with these last winter when i worked these up, no way am i going to have 2 different trays loaded with the same powder and 2 different weights.
Originally Posted By: Smokeless
What does the firing pin strike look like?
Posted by: Smokeless

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 07/31/15 10:41 PM

I Hear ya. That is the problem with most ball powders though. The temp thing is big with them, or it sure can be.
Posted by: cherokeetracker

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 07/31/15 10:59 PM

Put some in a baggy and put them on ice, Keep some cool till you get ready to shoot and see what they do. This is going to let you know for sure what is going to happen with them. Like Smokeless said Ball Powders will spike when subjected to high temperatures. FWIW lots of times even after you cooled them back down, they still act crazy.
Now that you know this you can load for your fall or winter shooting, but keep your ammo in a cool place. You don't have to refridgerate it but it cannot be left in a hot garage or storage.
Now you understand why Varget and a few other powders became so popular.
Posted by: Smokeless

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 07/31/15 11:10 PM

Yup. And if you work up the safe load in summer, the swing into winter is just as noticeable with low velocity.

Just some good old fashioned extruded powder will make you happy. Don't have to go extreme. Try some straight forward 4895. You'll be happy.
Posted by: dennyd

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/01/15 06:07 AM

I ran into this with blc-2 years ago, won't use it no more either, like i said i am not going to have 2 different batches of loaded rounds. I never run into this with h335 unless loaded at the very edge. Been reloading for years and just posting this to let people know this powder can spike pressure fast.
Posted by: varmit_master

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/01/15 04:44 PM

I am glad I seen this I was fixing to buy some to use in my 204. Thanks
Posted by: dennyd

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/01/15 04:52 PM

I think it;s fine if you reload and test for max pressure in about the same temp, but not for me to build the loads in winter and shoot when it's 88 dergees, then again i dont have that problem with 335 or any stick powder.
Originally Posted By: varmit_master
I am glad I seen this I was fixing to buy some to use in my 204. Thanks
Posted by: Squeeze

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/03/15 10:24 AM


I learned the same lesson with H-380. Developed a load for my 22-250 Rem., in April, and decided to check Zero, for some garden muncher eradication, in July(80 something degrees), and had extremely stiff bolt lift! I have been warning everyone I find using H-380, since. A gunsmith friend got the warning, and one of his P-Dog shooting partners had to pound his bolt open in SD. He thanked me for the warning, albeit a bit late in passing it on to his shooting partners.

All powders are effected by temperature. Some to the point of being dangerous, with a large enough shift in temps. Others not so much. As posted Varget, and H4895, seem to be less effected by temperature. I have seen groups open up, but have never had to pound a bolt open with these powders.

Squeeze
Posted by: Cast

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/03/15 12:30 PM

This is why, in Texas, I always try to load using 'Extreme' powders. Temperature stabile. We go from 110 in summer to -25 in winter storms.
Posted by: Squeeze

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/05/15 09:49 AM


Last night I talked to a local gunsmith, at my trap club, that just returned from a ND p-dog trip, singing the praises of CFE223. I mentioned this post about temperature sensitivity, and he said he experienced no such issue in both a 223 Rem. and a 204 Ruger, where both were shooting loads with CFE223. I guess not every one has temperature sensitivity issues with this powder.

Squeeze
Posted by: B23

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/05/15 10:40 AM

The OP did not say what they were loading 27.5gr of CFE223 in with 55gr bullets but if it was in a 223, 27.5gr of CFE223 and a 55gr. pill would be a max load to start with.

When you're playing with max loads, it leaves little room for error.
Posted by: RBoom

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/05/15 10:43 AM

I've been loading CFE223 with 55 and 63 grain Sierras in a .223, and haven't had any issues with it from 0 - 95 degrees. I don't know what kind of velocity swings it has from one extreme to the other, but have not noticed any degradation of accuracy. However, I'm not running near max book load with either bullet.
Posted by: rudymontana

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/05/15 11:25 AM

I have used this powder for about 2 years in reloads for my 223. At around 3500 fps pushing a 53gr. V-Max. and 50 gr spire points. From -10 to upper 90's never had one problem with it. Shot through casing that have had 4 reloading cycles and no problems? I liked it so well that I bought a 8lb keg of it.
Posted by: joed

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 08/10/15 07:51 PM

I too try to stay away from ball powders anymore. When I first tried H380 I was very disappointed in the fall.
Posted by: Campower

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 09/19/15 08:43 PM

I've been using CFE223 in my 308 with 175 smk and 175 tmk for awile now with no such signs.. and we here in maine have some of the most radical temp changes in very short periods of time. Never tried it in a 223 so I can't really say much regarding the OPs issue..
Posted by: ackleyman

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 09/20/15 06:32 PM

I have never had this kind of problems with H335, Win 748, H380, and Win 760 going from 75* to 100*. I do not let my ammo cook in the Sun nor do I let a round cook in a hot chamber. These two issues are the blame for a lot of "temp sensitive" issues.

Perhaps you should have Wintertime loads and summer loads(Sub 35* and 75* and above loads)

Also, rounds sitting in the sun will develop sky high pressures. Rounds cooking in a hot AR chamber send pressures soaring.

You guys that live in those super cold Winters have rough conditions to work up a load in.

There is some good information in this thread, already.

I wonder how many hundreds of tons of H335 have been loaded for AR15's for temps from minus 25*-140*?

A version of H322(T32) was what was making all those Viet Nam M16's jam up from not being clean. Army changed to a non canister H335 because it was so much cleaner buring...Surprise...surprise!!
Posted by: dennyd

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 09/24/15 10:02 PM

Thats what i am saying, i would want two loads if i wanted max loads both times of the yesar, i don't,so i won't. H335 never gave me problems.
Originally Posted By: ackleyman
I have never had this kind of problems with H335, Win 748, H380, and Win 760 going from 75* to 100*. I do not let my ammo cook in the Sun nor do I let a round cook in a hot chamber. These two issues are the blame for a lot of "temp sensitive" issues.

Perhaps you should have Wintertime loads and summer loads(Sub 35* and 75* and above loads)

Also, rounds sitting in the sun will develop sky high pressures. Rounds cooking in a hot AR chamber send pressures soaring.

You guys that live in those super cold Winters have rough conditions to work up a load in.

There is some good information in this thread, already.

I wonder how many hundreds of tons of H335 have been loaded for AR15's for temps from minus 25*-140*?

A version of H322(T32) was what was making all those Viet Nam M16's jam up from not being clean. Army changed to a non canister H335 because it was so much cleaner buring...Surprise...surprise!!
Posted by: Prairiedogks204

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 04/07/20 09:45 PM

I've shot plenty of prairie dogs in hot weather. The trick is to keep ur gun cool and keep your ammo in the shade. To many people leave their ammo to cook out in the sun. Let it sit long enough and it goes from nitroselious to nitroglycerin. Your basically firing a stick of dynamite. I've had zero issues with cfe 223 and h380, never once had a issue. Take care of your ammo loads!! If your worried about hot weather remember shade is your best friend!!
Posted by: ackleyman

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 04/08/20 10:57 AM

Remember, I had no problems going from 75-100*, but I did have the common sense to not load the very top end max load, also.

The folks that hunt in 32* and below weather are going to have to develop two loads to get the very best accuracy.

Even non temp sensitive powders are temp sensitive that I have found, H4350, H4831, and Varget.

Learning to reload for best accuracy has a life time learning curve. So, it is prudent to expect ALL powders to be temp sensitive, use NON temp sensitive powders when you can, but the real test comes from shooting groups at the range in various weather conditions.

For people that want to be lazy and not think, life's learning curve can be rough, especially if you are shooting some distance.
Posted by: longrange454

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 04/10/20 05:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Prairiedogks204
I've shot plenty of prairie dogs in hot weather. The trick is to keep ur gun cool and keep your ammo in the shade. To many people leave their ammo to cook out in the sun. Let it sit long enough and it goes from nitroselious to nitroglycerin. Your basically firing a stick of dynamite. I've had zero issues with cfe 223 and h380, never once had a issue. Take care of your ammo loads!! If your worried about hot weather remember shade is your best friend!!


I,ve been laughed at when i bring a heavy bath towel with me to place over by gun and ammo.
Posted by: rudymontana

Re: Cfe 223 and hot weather - 04/10/20 11:35 AM

I use CF&E 223 in my 204 and 223. -20 degrees to the 90's. Never had a problem with it. I don't load max, don't need to. I keep my ammo in the shade or my backpack. Barrel gets hot I take a break. It is my favorite powder for these rounds.

Rudy