.223 not cutting it for coyotes

Posted by: Pantera

.223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 03:34 PM

Deciding to switch from .223 to .308, .223 will grenade a yote but offers no knockdown power. Thinking I'm going to run 20"+ target barrels on AR-10s and keep the AR-15 barrels short. The more domesticated these things become the bigger they get.

What good is a 20" barrel on a 2.23? Deciding whether or not to keep it. I want to see what lengths guys are running for .223/5.56 and .308 respectively. Think I will convert to target builds on AR-10s and keep the AR-15s practical

If anyone has an R15 handguard, I might be interested
Posted by: TripleDeuce660

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 03:47 PM

What bullet are you shooting? I have no problems with 55 gr SPs. A lot of options with more knockdown without going to a 308.
Posted by: Pantera

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce660
What bullet are you shooting? I have no problems with 55 gr SPs. A lot of options with more knockdown without going to a 308.


55gr Remington UMC softpoint, I've had better luck with a properly placed .17 HMR. Must be something in the water
Posted by: case-nh

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 04:05 PM

I have a RRA TRO 14.5" hand guard if interested.
Posted by: Pantera

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 04:21 PM

Originally Posted By: case-nh
I have a RRA TRO 14.5" hand guard if interested.


PM sent
Posted by: LARUEminati

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 04:41 PM

Something isn't right here
Posted by: arlaunch

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 04:41 PM

It has never crossed my mind one time that .223 Rem could not kill a Coyote effectively.

My thinking would be to change bullet types.
Posted by: Pantera

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 04:56 PM

Originally Posted By: arlaunch
It has never crossed my mind one time that .223 Rem could not kill a Coyote effectively.

My thinking would be to change bullet types.




I have ended up having to track every single yote I have shot with a .223, these are shoulder, stomach, and hind leg shots. I have seen them run with their intestines dragging behind them, and my partners and I can only boil it down to the areas we hunt must be somewhat trafficked by other hunters, and the yotes are familiar with the sound of a gunshot; adrenaline kicks in and they are gone. My partner shot a coon with a .223 and we had to track for a half a mile. Finishing it with a .45 to the head was satisfying.

.223 is feeling more and more like a peashooter to me. It certainly will kill a coyote, but it has no knockdown power. I'm looking for something to coyotes what a .223 is to rabbits
Posted by: Bowhntr6pt

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 05:08 PM

I'd just build an upper in 6.8 SPC vs. the weight/cost of the large frames.

I have six large frame AR rifles 16, 18, and 24 all in .308... I don't take them coyote hunting as my 6.8 is a DRT rifle using 120gr SST bullets.

I guarantee you the Speer 70gr Semi-Spitzer will solve your run-off problems if you stay with .223.

Check this video out... three DRT'S

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJmKMxWuUdw
Posted by: Pantera

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 05:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Bowhntr6pt
I'd just build an upper in 6.8 SPC vs. the weight/cost of the large frames.

I have six large frame AR rifles 16, 18, and 24 all in .308... I don't take them coyote hunting as my 6.8 is a DRT rifle using 120gr SST bullets.

I guarantee you the Speer 70gr Semi-Spitzer will solve your run-off problems if you stay with .223.

Check this video out... three DRT'S

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJmKMxWuUdw


Sweet video. I think my issue with .223 might come from the grain
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 05:34 PM

these 223 wont kill a 25 pound coyote threads are always good for some laughs.
Posted by: Pantera

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
these 223 wont kill a 25 pound coyote threads are always good for some laughs.

Long time no see Snot I see you are still active
Posted by: bomberhat

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 05:42 PM

aim for the face,or just stick with your 17 HMR if that works better for you.
Posted by: AWS

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 05:44 PM

Shoulder, guts, legs, it isn't the 223 that is the problem.

If they hear the gunshot, you missed.

Coyote aren't very tough if you shoot them where you are suppose to with a decent bullet, they are tougher than [beeep] if you use the wrong bullet or shoot the fringes.

I have no problems with a 222 Rem and a decent bullet.
Posted by: The Surgeon

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 05:53 PM

I've shot all 11 of my coyotes with a .223 55 Grain V-Max. I did have one that ran off that I couldn't find but I believe I had poor shot placement on that one. The rest were DRT.

Casey
Posted by: Rock Knocker

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 06:29 PM

.17 HMR is the ticket as long as you keep the shots under 643 yards.
Posted by: steve garrett

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 06:31 PM

OK 223 is weak for coyotes but every one running off? how many did you shoot? don't get me wrong I do need some finishing shots on coyotes too. but I normally only outright loose maybe 1 or 2 a year and that is because I am more hesitant to put finishers in them. a facing solid chest hit aught to dump them. I mean sure go 308, but there are other options if you can go 243 in AR 10 that would also be an upgun situation.
Posted by: jsh

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 06:36 PM

20" to short, I have killed a fair number with 12" and 14" Contender using a 50 grain BK, any where from 50-300 yards.

I avoided shoulders,guts and legs though. A wild critters will to live and or escape should never be under estimated, no matter the size.
Posted by: greengt88

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 07:04 PM

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement...end of discussion.
Posted by: LARUEminati

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 08:25 PM

Get yourself a quality box of ammo then report back, remington 55gr umc is a joke. Thats for punching paper, inaccurately.

A quality box of 223 is still less than cheap 308 ammo. Doesnt sound like you reload.
Posted by: LARUEminati

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 08:29 PM

Originally Posted By: The Surgeon
I've shot all 11 of my coyotes with a .223 55 Grain V-Max. I did have one that ran off that I couldn't find but I believe I had poor shot placement on that one. The rest were DRT.

Casey


Using quality ammunition.

Nice job. Keep stackin em
Posted by: SixsixtyMags

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 08:59 PM

Was recently watching PA outdoors and was surprised at the # of youth hunters that shot deer with a .223. If a .223 can kill a deer it certainly can kill a coyote, shot placement and bullet type are where to start. If you want to go bigger I would go to a .243, and if that doesn't work my next choice would be a .35 Whelen loaded with .357 240gr Hornady XTP jacketed hollow points, they shouldn't go anywhere then! laugh
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 09:31 PM

If I was going AR 10 I would go 22" 243.
It would be like a meat saw. As a matter of fact I have an upper on backorder.
22 Nosler and 50s at 3600 is doing the trick for me though. 223 is a little weak for marginal hits. I like an edge when I can get it.
Posted by: reb8600

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 09:57 PM

Bad shots and it is a caliber problem??? Bigger caliber isnít going to help if you canít make good shots
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 10:08 PM

I don't know about that, 243 slinging 75s at max speed will pick a up a bit of the slack lol.
Posted by: OKRattler

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 10:57 PM

It's surprising a shot to the shoulder with softpoints isn't going through and hitting the important stuff. I've always had really good luck with SP's in my .223's. Then again I don't believe I've shot any of that particular brand.

I don't know what would remedy the shots to the guts and legs without the same result. I've seen them run away after taking a hit from the .308,243,22-250 and some others with hits to the gut. Anything from rib cage to the head have always had the best results for me. If you're shooting them walking or running straight away from you and want them dead on the spot I'd go with a .243 or .308 but that's just me.

Posted by: DiRTY DOG

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/15/19 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Pantera
55gr Remington UMC softpoint, I've had better luck with a properly placed .17 HMR.
I agree with your assessment that you'd be better off with a properly placed 17HMR than with poorly placed UMC softpoints in the stomach and legs.
Posted by: deaddogwalkin

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 07:43 AM

If you don't reload and want to go to something bigger but stay in the AR15 instead of go to the AR10 take look at the 6.5grendel. But use quality ammo. Heck the they also make a nice raccoon round also.
Posted by: cjclemens

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 09:26 AM

I've gone as light as 45 grain Sierra Varminters, and still haven't had any problems with .223 getting the job done. Even if my shot placement is off, coyotes I've hit tend to do that thing where they run in a circle and try to bite whatever bit them - and that usually gives me enough time to send a couple more. I can honestly say I've never tagged a raccoon with a .223, but the last time I hit a possum, it left a .22 entry wound and a pile of entrails on the other side. I gotta agree with everyone else here. You might need to try different ammo. Sure, I've had some rifles that shoot Remington UMC OK, but I've always had doubts about the terminal performance of those really cheap bullets.
Posted by: AWS

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 12:08 PM

A little side note

Rem 308 150gr SP's

I was still hunting deer in northern WI and spotted a nice buck working his way down a ridge toward me so hunkered down and waited as he passed me I shot him at 8 feet in the chest right behind the elbow, perfect hear/lung shot. He took off like a scalded cat, I couldn't believe he didn't drop or at least show signs of being hit, I didn't even take a second shot expecting him to drop. Good snow I thought I'd track him and get a second chance. About 40 yards away I started seeing flecks of blood on the snow at 60 some large patches that looked like he was coughing it up and another 40 yards and he was laying in the snow with a wound on his side the size of a dinner plate at first thought it was an exit wound and I actually stood there looking for another hunter after thinking about that I hadn't heard a shot examined the deer a little further and found the bullet had splashed on a rib and just a few pieces of jacket has sliced through the lungs. I wrote it up to being way to close. I drug him back to the truck and headed out with a couple more doe tags in my pocket.

I picked up a nice set of tracks and started to work them. A couple hours into it I could see the doe and yearling were going into thick black spruce thickets and circling to the downwind side and circling back behind me as I followed them through. I finally got to one of the thickets and started in then backed out and circled to the down wind side and waited and sure enough here they come walking straight to me watching the thicket at 20 yards I held on her neck in a straight line to the top of the heart, she went down but when I got to her it looked like someone had taped an M-80 to her throat and blew out a chunk of meat and wind pipe the size of a large softball. When gutting her there was zero penetration another bullet had exploded with out penetrating.

After I got her to the truck I tossed the rest of the ammo in the creek and went to town and found a box of my beloved 180gr RN's. Everything was just fine after that, never could get myself to use 150gr SP out of a 308 after that. They were Remington 308 150gr SP's, their 180gr RN's worked fine.

So even a bullet that sounds like it should be perfect for the job sometimes fails, maybe you just had a bad batch.
Posted by: newcoyotehunter

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 12:43 PM

Couldn't agree more with everyone, .223 with 55 gr vmax for me, hardly ever have one run. You very well may find that bigger isn't always better. I was running a 6.5 grendel with 95 gr ballistic tips last year. Seemed like 1 out of every 2 I shot would run a ways. What I came to learn was the heavier bullet was pinholing right through several of them. This year i switched back to .223 and have only had 1 coyote of 30 run which i believe was a poor shot on my part at 300 yds.
Posted by: 6724

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: reb8600
Bad shots and it is a caliber problem??? Bigger caliber isnít going to help if you canít make good shots


Truth right there.

I have killed a couple hundred coyotes with a 223. I've lost a few, but not many. But, now I use a 17-223, haven't lost one yet out of about 40 them.
Posted by: R. Toker

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
these 223 wont kill a 25 pound coyote threads are always good for some laughs.


That's where you're wrong. That coyote was at least 55 pounds!
Posted by: Brad Phillips

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 03:41 PM

Originally Posted By: R. Toker
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
these 223 wont kill a 25 pound coyote threads are always good for some laughs.


That's where you're wrong. That coyote was at least 55 pounds!


And was wearing a bandana, he was one tough mother trucker.
Posted by: SnowmanMo

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 04:00 PM

I shot a lot of coyotes with both a 16in .223 and an 18in .223 using Hornady 55gr Vmax's for a long time. When we saw runners we switched to the SP's and that worked.

But I also run a 16in .308 AR and love it using the 150gr SP's.
Posted by: nightcaller

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 08:05 PM

I would think a box of hornady ammo would solve your problem.
Posted by: tnvarmint

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 09:24 PM

I am with most everyone else here. Seems more of a shot placement problem than caliber problem. I would dare say that there are more coyotes killed each year with the 223/556 round than any other round.

Without getting into a huge debate over this following comment, I will also point out that it is currently the round of choice of the US military and military and LE around the world. Although not the most effective combat round and yes there has been a lot of debate about its effectiveness on the battlefield, fact is it does its job decently against 200 lbs targets and that is with military crap ball ammo and not modern BT ammo. I have no doubt it will take down a 25-40 lbs coyote or other predator with even moderately accurate shot placement.

That being said, I currently use an Ar in 6.8 SPC. It's my latest AR build and love the round so far. I would definitely check shot placement before ditching the 223/556 and then if still not satisfied, look at other AR-15 calibers like the 6.8 SPC among others before switching to the heavier, more expensive AR-10 platform.
Posted by: tnvarmint

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/16/19 09:32 PM

I also want to add this. Don't take it that folks here are saying you are a bad shot. It could possibly be just simple practice is needed. So many of us, myself included at times, go to the range and shoot MOA or even sub-MOA groups off of a nice stable rest or bi-pod and never practice off-hand or shooting sticks both standing and sitting.

I am no competition shooter but I can get between 0.5 and 1 inch groups out of all of my hunting rifles off the rest. That group gets larger when shooting off-hand or from shooting sticks and even worse depending on my sitting position. All too often we have to take a somewhat hurried shot in the field with less than optimal shooting stance and such which will result in less than accurate shots. Practice these real world shooting positions so that you are more prepared when in the field.
Posted by: willy1947

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/17/19 06:01 AM




I am old school, I like seeing them blow up.
When, they get hit with my 220 Swift.
PINK MIST was invented by the swift.
I load 45 OP @ 3.950/4,000fps.
56 years shooting and loading the swift.
On my 3rd rifle, 2 model 70's and now a ruger 77.
I load a Barnes 223 grenade bullet that is good in a 223 rem. powder metal.
My walking around rifle is a Yogo, Mini Mauser in 223, Interarms.
Posted by: SnowmanMo

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/17/19 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: tnvarmint
I also want to add this. Don't take it that folks here are saying you are a bad shot. It could possibly be just simple practice is needed. So many of us, myself included at times, go to the range and shoot MOA or even sub-MOA groups off of a nice stable rest or bi-pod and never practice off-hand or shooting sticks both standing and sitting.

I am no competition shooter but I can get between 0.5 and 1 inch groups out of all of my hunting rifles off the rest. That group gets larger when shooting off-hand or from shooting sticks and even worse depending on my sitting position. All too often we have to take a somewhat hurried shot in the field with less than optimal shooting stance and such which will result in less than accurate shots. Practice these real world shooting positions so that you are more prepared when in the field.


Excellent comment! Sometimes it is hard to accurately impart the right emotion into our comments when we use the electronic medium.

I make plenty of "less than ideal" shots. I have had situations where I placed, what I felt, was a "perfect shot" only to have a coyote turn and run. In the last video I posted, I had a dead square on chest shot that, for whatever reason, ended up blowing out the side of the coyote. Shouldn't have happened, I was squared up on the coyote, but it did. Sure, it's going to shake your confidence. But I have plenty of dead coyotes that have taken hits form that rifle and were DRT. So I am not going to abandon my tried and true rifle/ammo combo and go try to find the holy bullet grail. I am just going to try hard to make the best shot I can.

Originally Posted By: willy1947



I am old school, I like seeing them blow up.
When, they get hit with my 220 Swift.
PINK MIST was invented by the swift.
I load 45 OP @ 3.950/4,000fps.
56 years shooting and loading the swift.
On my 3rd rifle, 2 model 70's and now a ruger 77.
I load a Barnes 223 grenade bullet that is good in a 223 rem. powder metal.
My walking around rifle is a Yogo, Mini Mauser in 223, Interarms.




Me too Willy. I may not be as "old school" as some, but there is something SO satisfying about that meat slap...
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/17/19 10:43 AM

hmmmm, i have killed many coyotes with a 220 swift and its lil brother the 22-250. i never had either one "pink mist" or "blow up" a coyote. at least not what i or the guys i hang with consider pink mist or blow up.

but a prairie dog, rock chuck or jack rabbit, yeah baby. smile

Posted by: tnvarmint

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/17/19 05:37 PM

Just to add a little to my previous comment, within the last 24 hours or so, a popular youtuber that I watch posted a video where he was hunting deer in Mexico. I forget the exact range at which he took the shot but it was a good distance and off of a fairly stable tri-pod for a rest. He missed the shot.

I won't mention his channel name because I don't wan't this to be construed as an advertisement for him, but he is an US Army sniper veteran. He knows how to make a shot, especially when it counts. But even the "best of the best" miss occasionally and have nobody but themselves to blame. For the rest of us "average joes", we might miss more than occasionally, especially without putting the proper time in at the range, practicing all shooting stances.

For him, it wasn't about the rifle or caliber choice, he simply messed up and pulled off a bad shot.
Posted by: case-nh

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/17/19 07:00 PM

Out of 150 coyotes taken in the last 2 years with 55 grain V-Max reloaded by a veteran who runs a commercial reloading and gun shop hear in eastern Iowa (FarrosLeadFarm.com ; check him out, great prices on ammo, firearms, etc.). I've had 3 unrecovered coyotes. They made it to deep heavy cover where I lost them. Only took a few second shots to finish the job on a few. Estimate 30 to 40% are dead and just don't know it. Run 30 to 100 yds. being lung to heart shot and then drop. I've been hunting exclusively at night now.
Posted by: EddiePA

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/17/19 08:43 PM

55gr. UMC SP is a slow expanding projectile. In a coyote, it may not be expanding much, if at all. This is a projectile selection issue, not a cartridge selection issue.
Posted by: mcseal2

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/20/19 11:46 PM

I agree with the others on shot placement. A 223 takes better shot placement to anchor a coyote than say a 70 or 75 grain Ballistic Tip or V max from a 243. It does the job well though with a good shot.

For practice I like shooting the polymer ball targets that roll when hit. I use two of them and shoot one then the other, switch back and forth. Doing that from my sticks makes me set the sticks and find the ball in the scope every shot. It's darn good practice. When doing it don't only shoot angles that are comfortable, shoot ones that aren't too. I find that shooting to my right as a right handed shooter is tough so I practice it more than most. I set up on coyotes for a shot in front of me or to my left so I don't have to make the tough shots as often.

The difference between a 16" and 20" barrel for me was about 200fps with the same brand 55gr V max ammo in a couple of different AR's. The 16" barrel shot it 2750fps, the 20" 2964fps. It's not a perfect comparison since it was two different barrels.

The 20" barrel shot the 53gr Hornady Superformance ammo 3286fps but the rifle didn't like it. I am shooting it from my Savage Hog Hunter bolt gun and it shoots great from it.
Posted by: woodcutter

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/23/19 11:08 PM

I have never had a problem killing a coyote with 223, using 52 gr Serria hollow points and 53 gr Hornandy match bullets, don't matter what you shoot them with if you hit them in the leg or just break a shoulder, I have killed several at 400 yards no problem
Posted by: woodcutter

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 01/23/19 11:12 PM

I have 6mm ackely improved necked down to .224, shooting 55 gr bullets close 4000fps and it is no more deadly than the 223, just got to make a good shot on them
Posted by: willy1947

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 02/04/19 11:25 AM


But hunting I have found the white box Winchester 45gr @ 3600FPS is a good hunting round.

Hold the Fort I just found some white box Winchester 40grain poly tipped @ 3700FPS at MidwayUSA.

Then again shot placement is the whole story.


Posted by: Dultimatpredator

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/06/19 07:24 PM

Every coyote Iíve shot with a 223 has been bang flops except for one due to poor shot placement. I hit it high across the back. Never did recover it. I saw it the next day in the same area limping with a moon shape chunk missing out it.

My load 60 grain vmax with 25 grains of benchmark. Runs 2850 FPS out of my 14.5Ē POF and about another 125 FPS faster out of my 20Ē LTR.

Extremely poor shot placement is your problem as everyone who read the post can clearly see and have told you. Any plastic tipped bullet is your friend with this caliber. Aim for the shoulder on standing coyotes and they wonít go anywhere. If you canít stop them to stop for standing still shot then donít shoot. Youíll harvest less dogs but at least your DRT count will rise. Iíd tell you practice, practice, practice...or leave the rifle at home and pick up a shotgun along with some lead BB shot.
Posted by: Coyotejunki

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/06/19 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Pantera
.223 will grenade a yote but offers no knockdown power.


This doesn't make sense to me. It'll blow them up but not make them fall down?
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/06/19 11:11 PM

Here's a couple of quick videos of coyotes shot with an Stag AR-15 with 16" barrel. Load was 50 gr. V-max at about 3,100 fps. Range 100 yds.



Here is another one, same rifle same load.



It's not the caliber that is the problem. Put good ammo where it is supposed to go, and you will get good results.
Posted by: ackleyman

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/07/19 06:42 AM

We killed a house full of coyotes with this load, very fur friendly:

55g Winchester sp
26.5g of Win 748
3100 fps out of a 24" barrel

Dogs flop
Posted by: arlaunch

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/07/19 10:19 PM

This guy is just looking for a reason to buy a new rifle.

After the .308 he will tell his wife that he nicked the Coyote's paw and it still ran off.

Then he can say "honey, the .308 is no good for these Californian Coyotes"

I need a 50 BMG for close range and a .338 Lapua Mag for the ones that are a little farther.

Wifey says "you don't want to hurt the Coyote" Go ahead!
Posted by: hm1996

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/08/19 09:59 AM

Originally Posted By: Dultimatpredator
Every coyote Iíve shot with a 223 has been bang flops except for one due to poor shot placement. I hit it high across the back. Never did recover it. I saw it the next day in the same area limping with a moon shape chunk missing out it.

My load 60 grain vmax with 25 grains of benchmark. Runs 2850 FPS out of my 14.5Ē POF and about another 125 FPS faster out of my 20Ē LTR.

Extremely poor shot placement is your problem as everyone who read the post can clearly see and have told you. Any plastic tipped bullet is your friend with this caliber. Aim for the shoulder on standing coyotes and they wonít go anywhere. If you canít them to stop then donít shoot. Youíll harvest less dogs but at least your DRT count will rise. Iíd tell you practice, practice, practice...or leave the rifle at home and pick up a shotgun along with some lead BB shot.


This ^^^^^

Quote:
Originally Posted By: Pantera
.223 will grenade a yote but offers no knockdown power.


This doesn't make sense to me. It'll blow them up but not make them fall down?


Kills them dead but doesn't knock them off their feet.

Quote:
It's not the caliber that is the problem. Put good ammo where it is supposed to go, and you will get good results.


ETA: Ummmm, after thinkin' about it, you're absolutely right; the 223 is no good for coyotes. Maybe you should check out
REAL COYOTE RIFLE, for those really big un's and a lot more. (shameful plug blushing )

Regards,
hm
Posted by: Dultimatpredator

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/08/19 10:35 PM

Originally Posted By: DoubleUp
Here's a couple of quick videos of coyotes shot with an Stag AR-15 with 16" barrel. Load was 50 gr. V-max at about 3,100 fps. Range 100 yds.



Here is another one, same rifle same load.



It's not the caliber that is the problem. Put good ammo where it is supposed to go, and you will get good results.



Thatís awesome! Gotta use my photon XT one of these days! Bought it and never used it.
Posted by: Jim Byers

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/17/19 06:01 PM

The many deer, antelope and an elk I've killed with the ol 223 should have read this thread, then maybe they wouldn't have died..
Posted by: steve garrett

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/17/19 07:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Dultimatpredator
Originally Posted By: DoubleUp
Here's a couple of quick videos of coyotes shot with an Stag AR-15 with 16" barrel. Load was 50 gr. V-max at about 3,100 fps. Range 100 yds.



Here is another one, same rifle same load.



It's not the caliber that is the problem. Put good ammo where it is supposed to go, and you will get good results.



Thatís awesome! Gotta use my photon XT one of these days! Bought it and never used it.


what are you shooting those out of a heated deer stand with a concrete shooting bench in it. yeah if I have that much time to make a shoot, a 22 LR would probably get the job done.

no one thinks if things go perfect with the shot a 223 can't work. The problem is most hunters don't make perfect hits everytime. When you have shot 100's of coyotes with 22-250's or 243's and been there when others have done it. Then you see yourself and others needing more and more finishing shots with 223's the only conclusion is it aint nuff gun sometimes.
Posted by: ackleyman

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/17/19 08:10 PM

If you want to see a coyote get blown up, shoot a sierra 55g lead tip blitz with a hot load of benchmark, N135, 3350+.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/17/19 08:37 PM

Originally Posted By: steve garrett
Originally Posted By: Dultimatpredator
Originally Posted By: DoubleUp
Here's a couple of quick videos of coyotes shot with an Stag AR-15 with 16" barrel. Load was 50 gr. V-max at about 3,100 fps. Range 100 yds.



Here is another one, same rifle same load.



It's not the caliber that is the problem. Put good ammo where it is supposed to go, and you will get good results.



Thatís awesome! Gotta use my photon XT one of these days! Bought it and never used it.


what are you shooting those out of a heated deer stand with a concrete shooting bench in it. yeah if I have that much time to make a shoot, a 22 LR would probably get the job done.

no one thinks if things go perfect with the shot a 223 can't work. The problem is most hunters don't make perfect hits everytime. When you have shot 100's of coyotes with 22-250's or 243's and been there when others have done it. Then you see yourself and others needing more and more finishing shots with 223's the only conclusion is it aint nuff gun sometimes.


Actually I have shot hundreds with everything from a 17 Rem to 308 Win. My favorite caliber is the 243 with either a 55 gr. Nosler or 58 V-max, but for most of my night calling I use an AR in 6x45 with the 55 gr. Nosler BT, but right now I am shooting an AR in 223 with 50 gr. V-max for calling. I get tired of shooting the same thing all the time.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/17/19 10:21 PM

Originally Posted By: ackleyman
If you want to see a coyote get blown up, shoot a sierra 55g lead tip blitz with a hot load of benchmark, N135, 3350+.

I have thermal video of this. Looks like a Rage commercial where the blood flies on impact.
Posted by: DiRTY DOG

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: steve garrett

The problem is most hunters don't make perfect hits everytime. When you have shot 100's of coyotes with 22-250's or 243's and been there when others have done it. Then you see yourself and others needing more and more finishing shots with 223's the only conclusion is it aint nuff gun sometimes.

The OTHER only conclusion is it aint enough marksmanship sometimes.
Posted by: nightcaller

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 10:02 AM

Completely agree! Some of you guys should probably spend a little more time at the range shooting from "hunting" positions. I have a hard time with some of you that have never spent the time to be proficient enough with your guns to kill small animals. If you can't hit a pop can at 100yds from your sticks or bipod 20/20 times then you are not an "ethical" hunter and should either practice more or find another Hobbie. 223 is plenty! It's not the caliber that lacks its the trigger finger.

Now let's see some puffed out chests and bruised egos that won't admit they suck!
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 10:30 AM

If someone can hit a pop can 20/20 times off sticks, maybe they should go to the convention, enter the egg shoot and win a new rifle. Not saying it can't be done, just a pretty tall order to fill.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 10:30 AM

Like all forms of hunting you don't have to be a very good shot to hit a critter at most calling distance. The issue lies in rushing the shot and not settling the crosshairs or sight pin. It's about nerves and has little or nothing to do with folks not being able to hit a pop can at 100 yards. The other issue is plain and simple a lot of guys are using the Whitetail shot placement mentality on coyotes behind the shoulder and that doesn't work 100% of the time on coyotes. You can put a fist-sized hole through one there and they'll still run. But when the nerves kick in and you go into what some guys will call autopilot the crosshairs automatically settled back there behind the shoulder for a lot of guys me included. Coyotes are a funny critter when it comes to shop placement seems a pop gun will kill him if you hit him just right but you can run a train through em behind the shoulder and they'll still run.
Posted by: reaper4

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 10:35 AM

I never saw the need for anything bigger than a .22 cal when day hunting until I started hunting with thermal. When you hunt with thermal, you need a bigger gun lol
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 10:39 AM

I think another thing that guys out west don't take into account is they see and get an opportunity to shoot a lot of coyotes and can possibly remain more calm with the added experience from many more shot opportunities. I know most guys over here towards Illinois lose their ever-loving mind when a coyote gets into range in the daylight. They want nothing more than to kill that coyote but the chances are few and far between. It's 99% mental.
Posted by: reaper4

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 10:51 AM

Maybe but I started hunting coyotes in Texas and feel like my nerves are pretty solid. I donít get jumpy when a coyote appears and I have lost a few too many with a 223 at night.

Aside from that, as a contest hunter, if a coyote takes more than one step, he has gone too far after the shot. I donít care how good of a shot you are , a coyote will run from time to time when he gets hit with a 223. Thatís not acceptable for contest hunting. I think we are looking for different thinks out of the round. Iíd i was day hunting for pleasure, there would be no need for anything more than the old 223 rem
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 11:03 AM

Oh I agree 100% my post wasn't directed at yours. We have a few runners at night as well. I shoot either a 22" 6x6.8 or 22 Nosler. Added a 243 Ar10 this spring. At night we will shoot several on the run too.
Posted by: nightcaller

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 12:10 PM

Psycho dog, you're the kind of person I'm talking to. You should stop hunting or go practice. Maybe then you'd have a few thousand less posts and a lot fewer missed or wounded animals. If you can't hit the can 20/20 you should be embarrassed!
Posted by: nightcaller

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I think another thing that guys out west don't take into account is they see and get an opportunity to shoot a lot of coyotes and can possibly remain more calm with the added experience from many more shot opportunities. I know most guys over here towards Illinois lose their ever-loving mind when a coyote gets into range in the daylight. They want nothing more than to kill that coyote but the chances are few and far between. It's 99% mental.


Not living out west is not an excuse for your lack of practice. And I'm pretty sure not everyone in Illinois pissess down both legs the way you do when they see an animal.
Posted by: reaper4

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 12:20 PM

Varminter, 👍🏻 Contests donít allow for ideal shots a lot of the time
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: nightcaller
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I think another thing that guys out west don't take into account is they see and get an opportunity to shoot a lot of coyotes and can possibly remain more calm with the added experience from many more shot opportunities. I know most guys over here towards Illinois lose their ever-loving mind when a coyote gets into range in the daylight. They want nothing more than to kill that coyote but the chances are few and far between. It's 99% mental.


Not living out west is not an excuse for your lack of practice. And I'm pretty sure not everyone in Illinois pissess down both legs the way you do when they see an animal.

Can you explain to me how you practice simulating nerves when a coyote is charging in oh wizard of the west? Shot opportunities is really the only way. Almost anyone can hit a coyote sized target all day when shooting or practicing. While I don't kill everything I shoot at I never directly mentioned myself, I said most guys. You seem to have not been able to comprehend my post....desert heat getting to to you? Most guys get fewer than a handful of shots and some none each year here day calling. Don't believe I mentioned anything about pizzing but ya most guys get awful jack up.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 02:54 PM

Coyotes here don't even come out in the daylight much here. They certainly never stand still long enough for a bench rest style shot process. Before night hunting I would kill more each year with my bow just because I hunt every day. They don't come easy here. Most coyotes that get killed here in the day are probably run by dogs and shot while running too. I coyotes that are called in are inside for very short. Of time and then normally there and gone if you don't make the shot happen. I assume an Open Country there's more time to set up and get ready. Hopefully one day I'll make it there to find out myself.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/18/19 07:34 PM

If you put a decent type bullet from a 223 where it is supposed to go the result is a dead coyote usually DRT. Certainly, marginal hits will mean runners, spinners, and some losers. I've always wondered on these discussions of the 223 why so many have bad experiences with it, but at least a portion of those people will tell you the 222 Rem. was and still is a great medium range coyote cartridge. Hard to believe it can be both ways.

I'm tending to believe that perhaps it is because the triple deuce is usually a bolt-action whereas a high percentage of 223's are AR's. Perhaps those fast follow up shots available with an AR may keep some from taking as careful first shot as they would with a bolt-action, and then with the AR it is easy to go into the spray and pray mode. Just a thought I have, and may not be valid, but I suspect it is in some cases.

I do like the AR for night calling and really enjoy the 6x45, but you still have to hit them in vital places.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/19/19 12:02 AM

Originally Posted By: nightcaller
Psycho dog, you're the kind of person I'm talking to. You should stop hunting or go practice. Maybe then you'd have a few thousand less posts and a lot fewer missed or wounded animals. If you can't hit the can 20/20 you should be embarrassed!



LOL, I get plenty of range time. I'm the rifle range chairman at my gun club. Usually there 3-7 times a week. Sometimes working and sometimes shooting but trust me, I get plenty of range time. Those that know me know how I shoot. I'm just saying most...including me might have a tough time hitting 20/20 pop cans off shooting sticks at 100yds. Give me a decent rifle rest and there won't be a problem. As far as wounding animals, I take sensible shots at reasonable distances. If I think its to far away, I don't shoot. Been a long time since I wounded anything. Not counting your feelings. unsure
Posted by: dozer_xj

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/19/19 12:34 AM

Originally Posted By: DoubleUp


I'm tending to believe that perhaps it is because the triple deuce is usually a bolt-action whereas a high percentage of 223's are AR's.


My brother had a Remington 700 vls 223 with a 26" barrel. Our friend had an ar15 with a 16" barrel. Shooting at a 5/16" mild steel gong , the the same FMJ ammo,my brothers gun would shoot through it and the ar would only dent it. I too kinda feel the 223 gets a bad wrap from short ar15 barrels. That being said the guys around here that kill over 100 a year use 243s. Gotta be something to that.
Posted by: DiRTY DOG

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/19/19 10:30 AM

Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Originally Posted By: nightcaller
Psycho dog, you're the kind of person I'm talking to... If you can't hit the can 20/20 you should be embarrassed!



LOL, I get plenty of range time. I'm the rifle range chairman at my gun club. Usually there 3-7 times a week. Sometimes working and sometimes shooting but trust me, I get plenty of range time. Those that know me know how I shoot. I'm just saying most...including me might have a tough time hitting 20/20 pop cans off shooting sticks at 100yds. Give me a decent rifle rest and there won't be a problem. As far as wounding animals, I take sensible shots at reasonable distances. If I think its to far away, I don't shoot. Been a long time since I wounded anything. Not counting your feelings. unsure

I think what he means is that practicing from a bench at a rifle range is not as effective as practicing actual field shooting positions. Let's face it, MOST hunters do not practice field positions such as seated with shooting stix and it shows when they transition from the bench to the field.

I personally have never attempted 20 continuous shots at a soda can, but I have spent countless hours plinking at stuff with 22s from every position. And I regularly plink rocks and targets etc with my hunting rifle off stix pretty much every time I go out and on dedicated outings.

The only time I ever use a bench or range is for comfort/convenience during load development and testing.
Posted by: AWS

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/19/19 12:16 PM

Having grown up in WI and hunting fox for bounty in the 1960's experience is the biggest thing in gaining confidence. Practicing from field positions is another. Adapting to your hunting conditions is another, trying to call coyotes into the open in a heavily populated/hunted area can be a frustrating experience and when you do get one to come out more than often you will rush the shot for fear it will bolt. You might try getting down in the thick stuff where a coyote is far more comfortable.

The 222 Rem is a rather unique cartridge, and the fellow that is shooting one is someone that usually has a lot of experience. The average person will see a 222 Rem and wonder what it would cost to have it re-chambered to 223. A 222 Rem shooter will understand the limitations of the round and keep his shots within it's capabilities.

I have 3 222 Rem and zero 223's, if I need more than the 222 Rem the 22-250 more than fits the bill but saying that my coyote kills are far more likely to be with a 222 than a 22-250. I rarely expect a called coyote to farther than the effective range of the 222 Rem. and have no problems passing one one that is a marginal shot, I can usually call him in another day.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/19/19 01:46 PM

I never said 20/20 can't be done. But more people probably can't than can as shooting off sticks is a totally different game than shooting off a rest. I have several sets of sticks but truthfully, I hardly ever use them. Most of my field shooting is done setting on my butt and shooting off my knees. I usually set on a very short turkey seat and just rest my rifle off my knees. Been doing it for years. But here again, I wait for the shot. If its headed towards me I just wait. If its out of my comfort zone I just pass. I hunt for fun so its not a big deal if I don't get a shot.
Posted by: AWS

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/19/19 06:34 PM

Being able to hit a popcan at a hundred won't get you past round 1 at the egg shoot. I practice on dime sized targets at 100 yards with my 22 LR leading up to the egg shoot. You better be able to hit a quarter at 150 yards off sticks to be competitive. Last year I didn't get past round two.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/20/19 11:45 AM

Pop cans on a stick don't move either, coyotes hardly ever stand still. Apples and oranges. We use to shoot ping pong balls filled with colored water hanging from a string at 100yds with 17HMR's. Thats a bunch of fun when there's a breeze blowing. (Note: my friends wife filled them with a syringe and super glued a string to them and we hung them off the bottom of a back stop.)

AWS, I agree shooting cans @100 and eggs @150 are totally different. I have a buddy that thinks it will be easy. Soon as the weather cools a little, I'm going to have an egg shoot at the club. Figure he can come out and show all of us how easy it is. LOL!!
Posted by: AWS

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/20/19 01:10 PM

Oklahoma isn't that far from Elko, come on out and shoot eggs and coyotes with everyone.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 08/20/19 03:23 PM

I'd love to come out and meet a bunch of you guys. According to Google its about 22 hours from Tulsa. Just had a big expense getting dental work done. I'm not sure the funds will be there this year but its on the bucket list.
Posted by: MIvarminter50

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/08/19 10:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Dultimatpredator
Every coyote Iíve shot with a 223 has been bang flops except for one due to poor shot placement. I hit it high across the back. Never did recover it. I saw it the next day in the same area limping with a moon shape chunk missing out it.

My load 60 grain vmax with 25 grains of benchmark. Runs 2850 FPS out of my 14.5Ē POF and about another 125 FPS faster out of my 20Ē LTR.

Extremely poor shot placement is your problem as everyone who read the post can clearly see and have told you. Any plastic tipped bullet is your friend with this caliber. Aim for the shoulder on standing coyotes and they wonít go anywhere. If you canít stop them to stop for standing still shot then donít shoot. Youíll harvest less dogs but at least your DRT count will rise. Iíd tell you practice, practice, practice...or leave the rifle at home and pick up a shotgun along with some lead BB shot.


Good stuff right there !
.223 I use 60 gr vmax
6.5 grendel I use 95 gr vmax wink
I too need to practice MORE using my tri-pod/shooting sticks ..
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/09/19 08:35 AM

Just about anything will work if you hit them right. I think basically the two to three not being enough for coyote means that when you shoot them through the guts or a little far back or through the back leg they don't blow up like they do with a 243 around max load. I think blem bullets also have thicker jackets and maybe don't work like the regular ones.
Posted by: Scrumbag

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/13/19 10:49 AM

Before changing guns I would try different ammo.

Certainly if I shoot a fox with my 62gr Federal Fusions it's much better if I hit a solid bone like the shoulder. They seem to "pencil" through if I don't get a major bone. Something like a 55gr V-max is available in lots of factory loadings and probably worth a box or 2.

Practice is always important. Gut shots and hips will usually result in runners. The more practice you have and confidence in your equipment the easier it will be to make good hits and take some of the pressure off on live quarry.

ATB,

Scrummy
Posted by: firecapt

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/27/19 10:06 PM

I think the 6.8 is a great choice when you need extra power. The round will take on larger game when the opportunity comes around. My grandsons have taken several deer with it.
Posted by: 6724

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/27/19 10:31 PM

If you are having trouble killing coyotes with a 223, you need to look in the mirror to find out why!!
Posted by: lowholer1

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/28/19 09:25 AM

I have a hard time with believing a 223 is not enough gun for coyotes.As a kid all I had was my ruger 10/22 and I killed a lot of coyotes.I was so pumped the day I got it and still own it.I think shot placement is crucial If you put one in the lungs ,head or kneck they may run off but it will die some were!
Posted by: spotstalkshoot

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/28/19 10:37 AM

I see it at range days all the time, not everyone has the same ability or the same quality level of equipment. That's why there often disagreement and discussion about caliber choice and observational performance.
Posted by: Coyotejunki

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/28/19 10:58 AM

I guess I will need to sell off my 17's and 20's and stay with my 22-250 because they clearly won't work.

Also, all you egg shoot guys just need to forfeit and just let me win that AR15 because it is a 223... laugh
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 09/28/19 04:10 PM

Originally Posted By: spotstalkshoot
I see it at range days all the time, not everyone has the same ability or the same quality level of equipment. That's why there often disagreement and discussion about caliber choice and observational performance.


I'm the range chairman at our club and see what spotstalkshoot is talking about on a daily basis. Also whats good enough for them isn't going to work at all for me or you. I know a guy that if he can hit a paper plate at 100yds, thats plenty good enough.
Posted by: SnowmanMo

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 10/01/19 04:04 PM

Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Originally Posted By: spotstalkshoot
I see it at range days all the time, not everyone has the same ability or the same quality level of equipment. That's why there often disagreement and discussion about caliber choice and observational performance.


I'm the range chairman at our club and see what spotstalkshoot is talking about on a daily basis. Also whats good enough for them isn't going to work at all for me or you. I know a guy that if he can hit a paper plate at 100yds, thats plenty good enough.


I think these are valid points. I shoot a lot and I shoot a lot of coyotes. I have used everything fron a .17Rem to a .308 to a 12 gauge. I've had runners on just about everone of those at some point. I don't jump right to the caliber. I look at the shot placement first then look at the results of the shot, if I can. Once had a coyote take a dead on chest hit from my .308 and it spun and tried to run. A quick follow up anchored it. The first shot had completely unzipped it's left side. So something caused the shot to veer off after it entered. Was that one enough for me to give up on the caliber? No way. I would just as quickly grab my 17, 204, 223, 6.5g or 308 and go out without hesitation.
Posted by: AWS

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 10/06/19 10:23 AM

I just came back from a week of coyote hunting with my nephew. We were playing with rifles and killed them with a 22 Mag, 218 Bee, 22-250, .243 and 16ga the only one that got back up and got away was with the 243, go figure.

We did take a 223 out one day but didn't see one to shot, I guess the 223 didn't cut it as a coyote rifle.
Posted by: Coyotejunki

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 10/06/19 11:01 AM

Old Chili Rojo killed a bunch of coyotes with the old Hornet one year for the foxpro contest. Shot placement, and call them in.
Posted by: sqeezeatrigger

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/07/20 04:08 PM

Use something besides UMC ammunition for live targets, many choices out there.
Posted by: Coyote#1

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/07/20 08:10 PM

63gr sierra semi point will get ya good penetration. But then again so will the 55gr game king! Both are tougher bullets at 223 velocities.
Posted by: liliysdad

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/08/20 07:10 AM

I used the 223 for years, killed a bunch of critters, but eventually wanted more horsepower. Went to the 223AI then to the 22 Creedmoor, and the difference is night and day.

I still own and use 223s, but if I am calling anything that has the potential to present a shot over 300yd, I am toting something bigger.
Posted by: topwater225

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/08/20 08:25 PM

Originally Posted By: liliysdad
I used the 223 for years, killed a bunch of critters, but eventually wanted more horsepower. Went to the 223AI then to the 22 Creedmoor, and the difference is night and day.

I still own and use 223s, but if I am calling anything that has the potential to present a shot over 300yd, I am toting something bigger.


I can ditto this....
I used to use .22-250 and hunting buddy has always used .223, and both kill.

The past 2 years I also used a .223 and really enjoy it...BUT I have noticed way more "runners". No problem retrieving them but I think I just started to be aware of it.

This year I switched to a 6DTI. I fricken love this caliber in an AR platform and I used to hate AR's tongue_smilie
With this setup, I'm 12/12 including one 500 yard and multiple 300+ yard dogs...with NO runners. This setup has me gleaming with confidence that one loves to have with his rifle. My buddy and his .223 with 55's had multiple vital shot runners just this last week.
Posted by: dennyd

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/12/20 12:33 PM

The dude needs practice more than anything else, stomach and leg hits, that he even said it shows
how green he is at this game. Muzzle blast scares him or something. 223 is a fine coyote round, but he has to put the bullet where it counts. He has no clue and he has not come back to spread more garbage.
Originally Posted By: sqeezeatrigger
Use something besides UMC ammunition for live targets, many choices out there.
Posted by: reaper4

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/12/20 02:57 PM

Anyone that says a 223 does as good a job as a 243 needs to actually kill a few with a 243. Sure 223 will kill them but with a larger/faster bullet, you can be off a little and still not have to chase them down. There a reason contest hunters want more horsepower. All the guys saying ďjust work on shot placementĒ need to realize that some guys like to be able to knock down runners on the spot with less than ideal shot placement.
Posted by: dennyd

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/12/20 06:09 PM

Who said a 223 is as good as a 243? I missed that one. But a shot in the leg is still a shot in the leg, same if you unzip their stomach. He shouldn't come on here and say the 17 Hmr is better just because he finally made a good shot., lol.
Originally Posted By: reaper4
Anyone that says a 223 does as good a job as a 243 needs to actually kill a few with a 243. Sure 223 will kill them but with a larger/faster bullet, you can be off a little and still not have to chase them down. There a reason contest hunters want more horsepower. All the guys saying ďjust work on shot placementĒ need to realize that some guys like to be able to knock down runners on the spot with less than ideal shot placement.
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/12/20 07:20 PM

when i started coyote hunting way back in the day, i saved enough money to finally buy my very first rifle. i wanted a rifle i could use for everything from jackrabbits to elk. i bought a 300 win mag at gibsons. anybody remember the gibson stores?

i killed a shiz load of coyotes with that dang 300 mag. i wounded and lost a bunch too. blew legs off, unzipped em, you name it. truth is i never shot that win mag all that great because it kicked like a mutha.

just saying like others have already said, gotta put the bullet where it matters. 223 will kill coyotes as well as anything.
Posted by: DAA

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/12/20 09:59 PM

I remember Gibsons. What I remember most, was when they were going out of business. There was one, I was in, they had a fiber barrel full of barreled Mauser actions, barreled by P.O. Ackley (local). No stocks, just barrels fitted to Mausers and no indication of what kind of barrels. Whole bunch of different calibers, standard and wildcat. Cheap. But cheap was more than I had at the time and I didn't buy one. I knew what I was looking at, too. But broke is broke and I was broke.

Have many times wished I could have bought the whole dam barrel full.

- DAA
Posted by: OKRattler

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/13/20 09:02 AM

I remember Gibsons too. That was my favorite store to go in when I was little to take a look at the knives and guns. Got my first pocket knife and BB gun there.


Even though this is an old thread I'll add my experience with the .223 since that's my main tool of choice for all around critter killin. I've shot 18 coyotes,2 bobcats and a badger with it this Winter. Shots have been anywhere from 50 to a little over 300 yards. All but 3 animals have went straight down. And two of those didn't make it over 25 yards before falling over. One coyote made it about 50 yards before giving up the ghost. I've mainly been using a 55 grain softpoint. Behind the shoulder and neck have been where I'm putting the softpoint. I haven't ever really been a huge fan of softpoints but they're growing on me. You get an exit every time on broadside shots but generally it's not too bad of an exit wound.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/13/20 12:13 PM

Seems every year we get a post about the 223. A 17 HMR will kill a coyote but the 223 isn't enough. I wonder how many coyotes have been killed though the years with the under powered 223? I wonder what the coyotes would have to say.
Posted by: OKRattler

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/13/20 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By: pyscodog
Seems every year we get a post about the 223. A 17 HMR will kill a coyote but the 223 isn't enough. I wonder how many coyotes have been killed though the years with the under powered 223? I wonder what the coyotes would have to say.


If I were to guess and judging by how hard .223 ammo is to come by I'd say the .223 probably kills more coyotes than just about any other cartridge. That's strictly a guess of course. There's no way to know for certain but if I had to bet money on which kills the most every year I'd put my money on it.
Posted by: 405 win

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/13/20 10:55 PM

Way back when I hunted for pelts, I took a fair amount of fur with the 223. While it worked fine in most cases, it would do strange things every once in a while. A broadside shoulder shot would become an intestinal unzip. I would blame these anomalies as a bullet failure of some sort, which it may have been.
My favorite dog caliber however was the 22-250. Instant death with a rip in the hide to prove it. Oddly, my 17 remmy was nearly the equal of the 22-250 without the damage. Only had one runner and that was a 400+ yard yard shot in a fairly stiff wind but the dog was recovered.
Posted by: jskinn22

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/22/20 07:41 AM

I shot Vmaxes for 2 years in my 16" AR 223. I constantly had runners and spinners. This year I switched to soft points and they are hammers. Most are now DRT. You hit them in the chest or front shoulder and they don't go anywhere.
Posted by: Hellgate

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/22/20 12:21 PM

jskinn22,
What weight of Vmaxes did you shoot?
Posted by: jskinn22

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/22/20 04:40 PM

I tried the 55's and the 53's. I just didn't have any luck with them. Don't get me wrong they would kill coyotes but I almost always had to use follow up shots or track them down 50 to 100 yards after the shot.
Posted by: liliysdad

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/22/20 06:27 PM

I have killed a TON of coyotes with the 50gr Vmax, but they like a little bit of speed. I am running them at 3500fps from a 20" 223 Ackley. They perform quite well with very few runners as long as I keep my distances under 300yd.

That being said, having more bullet and more speed sure is nice.
Posted by: Rock Knocker

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/24/20 02:00 PM

Originally Posted By: jskinn22
I shot Vmaxes for 2 years in my 16" AR 223. I constantly had runners and spinners. This year I switched to soft points and they are hammers. Most are now DRT. You hit them in the chest or front shoulder and they don't go anywhere.


I agree, I will never shoot a vmax at another animal again. I switched to 65gr SGK and they hit like a supersonic brick.
Posted by: 509welder

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/24/20 06:28 PM

Killed my first coyote as a kid with a 22lr, and seen many fall with 22lr and 22mag, I love this thread.
Posted by: Rock Knocker

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/25/20 04:05 PM

I've seen deer killed with 22lr, doesnt make it a very good choice.
Posted by: mattman215

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/25/20 10:46 PM

This does not add up
Posted by: DiRTY DOG

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 12/26/20 12:13 AM

Originally Posted By: mattman215
This does not add up
That's what my wife said when I told her I actually save money by reloading my own ammo.
Posted by: wildflights

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 11/05/21 06:47 AM

*
Posted by: shepman

Re: .223 not cutting it for coyotes - 11/06/21 05:54 PM

I have only lost one with a 223 and it was a bad shoulder shot with a vmax. This year Iím going to try a 6mm arc upper I just put together. Iím hoping to extend my range some and have better bc for the wind.