22-250, 204 or something else?

Posted by: Rex Nutria

22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/26/22 08:04 PM

I have been thinking of getting a high velocity 20 caliber round such as 22-250 or 204 Ruger, just because I have not tried any of these type of cartridges. As a reloader, I have worked up 30 caliber rounds, like 300 Savage and 30-06 for my deer rifles and a lot of pistol cartridges, so when components are available, I could reload for them. But what should I consider with 22-250 vs. 204? Or should I go with something else, such as .223. But I do like the idea of shooting something around 4k fps. For a minute I thought about maybe a 17 Hornet, but not really sure about those 17s.
Posted by: OKRattler

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/26/22 08:09 PM

Depends on how far you're wanting to shoot. If not over 300 yards I'd get a .223 but I'd choose a 22-250 or a .243 over a .204. Also depends on if you're saving fur. If you're not I'd choose the .243 over the 22-250 for the simple fact that you can shoot heavier bullets or if you choose you can shoot light 58 grain bullets that are zippin out of there pretty dang fast.
Posted by: AdamT

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/26/22 08:34 PM

Of the ones you listed, 223 would be my last choice. But itís like vanilla, its nothing real special, but works most of the time. 17 hornet would probably be best for fox, worst for wind. All depends on what you want to do with it. 204 is pretty wicked. 22-250 has been long proven. Canít go wrong with any of them really.
Posted by: B23

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/26/22 08:53 PM

Components will favor a 223 the most 22-250 second, and 204 last. Finding loaded ammo the ranking will be the same.

As to which one you should get, a good argument could be made with regard to all three. Most economical 223, most versatile and will achieve your 4K fps with a wider variety of bullets would be the 22-250 and the 204 Ruger kind of fills the gaps the others don't.

Unless you plan to have one built in the market we're currently in I'd say get whichever one you can get first as well as ammo/components to feed it with.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/26/22 08:59 PM

If I had to choose, prolly the 204. As much as I absolutely love the 223 round, especially Improved.. The 204 has Less wind drift. Great B.C. Stupid flat, and wild fast.

My first calling rifle was a 223. Iíve still got it. Itís Ackley Improved, and it really makes the 223 shine. People can dog it all they want too, but my AI with 53gr Hornadys has bang-flopped-dead more coyotes than any of my other rifles put together. Iíve killed them at 20 and Iíve killed them at 505, DRT. I always said if I only had to have one, itíd be my 223 AI.. ButÖ

The 204 does the same thing, just that much better. If you want to save fur, and really knock the snot out of one, itíll do both. Fast, Flat, and Accurate.. And the 204 is all 3!
Posted by: Rex Nutria

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/26/22 09:44 PM

I have thought of getting a Winchester Featherweight in 22-250, just really like the look of that light weight rifle. A .243 is also interesting, but that is a larger case, and I was thinking of a round that would use less powder. I am in the suburbs outside Baltimore, so we have plenty of varmints, if you know what I mean. But not much space to cut loose with a centerfire rifle!
Posted by: spotstalkshoot

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/26/22 10:15 PM

Real world all the cartridges you mentioned will have to be loaded with light for cartridge bullets to hit 4k velocities(especially in sporter/hunting length barrels). The 204 will be easiest to see hits with, 223 cheapest to feed, 22-250 most muscle(highest maintenance cost, shortest barrel life).
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/26/22 11:10 PM

Originally Posted By: B23
Components will favor a 223 the most 22-250 second, and 204 last. Finding loaded ammo the ranking will be the same.

As to which one you should get, a good argument could be made with regard to all three. Most economical 223, most versatile and will achieve your 4K fps with a wider variety of bullets would be the 22-250 and the 204 Ruger kind of fills the gaps the others don't.

Unless you plan to have one built in the market we're currently in I'd say get whichever one you can get first as well as ammo/components to feed it with.




This probably makes the most sense.
Posted by: OKRattler

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 12:26 AM

Originally Posted By: Rex Nutria
I have thought of getting a Winchester Featherweight in 22-250, just really like the look of that light weight rifle. A .243 is also interesting, but that is a larger case, and I was thinking of a round that would use less powder. I am in the suburbs outside Baltimore, so we have plenty of varmints, if you know what I mean. But not much space to cut loose with a centerfire rifle!


My choice would be based off of what I call in most where I hunt. Foxes,bobcats or coyotes and how much damage I want to do to them. How far I'm shooting,day or night calling,etc.

If I was calling in mostly foxes with the occasional coyote or bobcat thrown in there I'd most likely choose a .17 of some sort. Which one would depend on the distance I shoot most often. If I wasn't worried about saving fur I'd bump it up to a .223 if I wasn't shooting long distances.

If I was primarily huntin at night I'd choose a .224Valkyrie for saving fur, 6mm ARC if I wasn't and it'd be in an AR platform because of lower recoil and quick follow up shots especially if I was primarily calling in foxes. Not only that but they're both known to be flat shooting cartridges which is helpful at night. Especially hunting with a light because distance can be deceiving under those conditions.
Posted by: WTJones

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 08:24 AM

You have gotten a lot of good advice but the best was to get what you could find. Bolt action market is tough right now.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 11:45 AM

Strange to me, but when it comes to killing coyotes a 223 doesn't get the job done. This has been argued a million + times. I'd be willing to bet that there have been more coyotes killed with a 223 than any cartridge on the planet.

But of the three choices and I could only pick one. It would probably be the 22-250. With the right twist barrel you can get speed, distance and moderate barrel life. It might cost a little more to reload because it uses more powder. Ackley Improve it and get a boost in velocity and longer brass life but it will shorten the barrel life a little. In the long run, its not so much what caliber and bullet you use as where you put the bullet. Bullet placement is what matters the most.

Before I hit the submit button I scrolled back up and read the OP's second post where he says he lives in the suburbs and not much room to cut loose with a center fire. If that's the case, get a 12 gauge shotgun.
Posted by: coyote6974

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 01:41 PM

I think in a 20 caliber, I'd have to choose a .22-250 over a .204, or a .223. I think you can find ammo and components a bit easier for the .22-250, and it is a much better coyote killer than a .223.
I've been calling coyotes for about the past twenty five years, and have used rifles in .22-250, 223, and .243 Winchester, as well as a 6.8 SPC AR. Of all of them, I found the .243 Winchester to be the best pure coyote killer of them all. With that said, I think the .22-250 stands right there beside it. Compared to a .223, the two of them are head and shoulders above. I think the 6.8 SPC at under 150 yards is also a great coyote killer, if you want to use an AR platform carbine, it's nearly perfect.
Trouble is the .223 is a much better choice if your going to be encountering fox or bob cats, which I seldom do. Also the .223 in an AR is just too convenient and all around fine. As much as I like my .243's, .22-250's and my 6.8, I seem to gravitate back to those 5.56 AR's. It's so nice having a handy carbine, that the snow, or the rain has zero effect on. If I drop it in the mud, so what. They're just a natural born hunting tool. And if a fox comes along it won't cut it into two pieces. Also having a lifetime supply of brass for the 5.56 is a good thing. When I lose a case in the weeds I don't find myself rooting around in the grass looking for it.
Now.. Just last week I got a reminder of both shortcomings of using a 5.56 AR platform carbine for hunting coyotes. Fist was I'd set up along the edge of a gravel pit to try calling a coyote out of the brushy edge. Off to my left was an open 200 acre cornfield. After setting my Foxpro in the stalks and getting sat down against a tree, I see a black spot moving in the cornfield about 600 yards out. I crank my 3.5 - 10 scope up and see its a coyote standing out in the stalks. My .22-250, or one of my .243's whould have been a much better rifle to have along than the AR. I didn't even take a poke at that coyote. Just watched him walk over the ridge out there. A few days later I was set up in a fencerow calling to a wood lot 200 yards across a bean stubble field. I was watching upwind toward the woods when I noticed a coyote had somehow trotted in to my left, and was standing in the open field at about 120 yards. I sent a 55 grain HP into her shoulder that just put her in a spin. I sent out a second shot that took her front legs out from under her. Now she's down in the front and lets out a long howl. I send another 55 grainer up her backside and put her on the ground, and shut her up. I let her lay there while I call another ten minutes or so. When I walk up to her she growls and barks at me when I'm about ten feet away. I had to use my finish pistol on her. I only seem to have this happen when I'm shooting a .223. If I hit them in the shoulder it just won't penetrate like a .22-250 or a .243, or 6.8 for that matter. A .22-250 using the exact same bullet just has the energy to drive that bullet right on into a coyotes shoulder, where the .223 will stop, and put the coyote in a spin. If you can only have one.. Get yourself a .22-250.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 01:49 PM

The 22-250 has been a proven coyote killer for years. The .243 is a better all-around cartridge for deer and bigger game. There are tons of bullets in the .224 and .243 but I just never found one that I fell in love with on the 6mm/243 that was fur friendly along with DRTs. I have always had good luck with Berger Target Match bullets. After temporarily shelving, the 22-250 for some other wildcat cartridges, I came back to it about 4 years ago. I now have a bolt chambered in 22-250 and an AR10 in 22-250. I have lots of other coyote calibers and have used .17 Rem,.204, .223 and many more, but in the end, to me the 22-250 will always be king for coyotes. Yes, the .223 is much cheaper to reload but I would rather have more range, better knock-down, and recover more coyotes than save a little on ammo. I know fur prices are down this year, but it is still good to have a gun that doesn't tear a coyote apart for when you want to save some pelts or later when prices rebound.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 02:10 PM

I would like to try a 22-250 some time. But comparing velocity, it should only gain maybe 100 yds on a 223? I guess with equal barrel length. So my question is how is 223 weak at 120 yds, but 22-250 with the same bullet a killer at 350? FYI 243 is my current favorite but I don't kill near the numbers you guys do.
Posted by: coyote6974

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 04:39 PM

204 I think in my case it's the difference in the .223 from a 16" barrel at 3050 FPS, vs the .22-250 at 3550 FPS from the 22" barrel of my Remington 700. Five hundred FPS is enough to make for a very notable difference in the final outcome. I load both cartridges with 55 grain Sierra Game King HP's. I don't load my AR's as hot as bolt action loading data allows for a bolt rifle. I also don't load my .22-250 ammo to maximum velocity either. Other's MMV..
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 07:31 PM

Yeah that's a big difference, a quick look on strelok shows the 22-250 has roughly a 125 yd head start, at that point it's about the same as the shorty 223 is at the muzzle. I'm sure that's a big part of people's issues and how the comparison is tilted so far to the bigger cartridge.

Someone shooting a 24-26" 223 bolt gun loaded up to max would shorten the head start of the 22-250 by a fair amount.
Posted by: OKRattler

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 08:40 PM

Originally Posted By: 204 AR
I would like to try a 22-250 some time. But comparing velocity, it should only gain maybe 100 yds on a 223? I guess with equal barrel length. So my question is how is 223 weak at 120 yds, but 22-250 with the same bullet a killer at 350? FYI 243 is my current favorite but I don't kill near the numbers you guys do.


The .243 has more impressive ballistics. My brother shoots an 87 grain V-Max out of his or a 90 grain softpoint. Does really well putting coyotes down and not tearing up fur. One of my buddies shoots a 58 grain V-Max out of his. It's not so fur friendly but that don't go nowhere. I'd rather shoot a heavier bullet to buck the wind better myself. Both will kill a coyote stone dead.

I like my 22-250 just fine although I shoot my .223 more. If you compare ballistics between the two the 22-250 is basically doing at 400 yards what a .223 is at 300. Pretty close anyway.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 09:56 PM

This may sound ridiculous to some people.. and I may get smoked for this comment lol..

The ďheavier bullet bucking the wind betterĒ I can see the theory. But Iím science, and Iím reality, I donít see that being the case.

A 32gr or 40gr bullet going 4000+ would ďbuck the windĒ better than a 60,70,80gr bullet. Less surface area, less drag. And speed, speed plays a huge roll for me. The faster it gets there, the less time itís in the air, which means the less time it has to be effected by the wind.

I dunno if that makes a lick of sense to anyone. But Iíve shot thousands of rounds, with people like my gunsmith, whoís broke multiple world records.. and he lives, eats, sleeps, and breathes LR and ELR shooting.

A bullet going 4000fps is going to get to the target faster than a bullet going 3500. Thatís a given. Which means itís in the air less time, and means it has less time for air to effect it.

My 204 shooting 10gr less bullet weight, doesnít drift NEAR as far, as my 223. Or even my 220 swift for that matter.
Posted by: B23

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 10:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
This may sound ridiculous to some people.. and I may get smoked for this comment lol..

The ďheavier bullet bucking the wind betterĒ I can see the theory. But Iím science, and Iím reality, I donít see that being the case.

A 32gr or 40gr bullet going 4000+ would ďbuck the windĒ better than a 60,70,80gr bullet. Less surface area, less drag. And speed, speed plays a huge roll for me. The faster it gets there, the less time itís in the air, which means the less time it has to be effected by the wind.

I dunno if that makes a lick of sense to anyone. But Iíve shot thousands of rounds, with people like my gunsmith, whoís broke multiple world records.. and he lives, eats, sleeps, and breathes LR and ELR shooting.

A bullet going 4000fps is going to get to the target faster than a bullet going 3500. Thatís a given. Which means itís in the air less time, and means it has less time for air to effect it.

My 204 shooting 10gr less bullet weight, doesnít drift NEAR as far, as my 223. Or even my 220 swift for that matter.


Your theory really only applies in either extreme differences of bullet BC and or relatively shorter distances. When you start getting beyond around 400 yards it starts favoring the heavier higher BC bullets. On the windage side of things heavier starts winning within 100 yards.

Take a 40gr Berger in a 204 leaving at 4000fps and compare it to a 22cal 80 berger launching at 3500. Up to 300 yards the 4000 fps 40gr VS 3500 fps 80gr the TOF is already nearly identical and the 40gr only drops 1 inch less but in a 10mph crosswind the 40gr drifts double the distance of that 80 grainer and from 400 yards on out the 80gr walks away from the 4000fps 40.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/27/22 11:12 PM

I guess I see what youíre saying, to an extent. But I do know for an absolute fact, without a doubt, that my 204 drifts less than my 223 AI, and my 220 Swift, at 400.

A buddy of mine, DAA knows him well, Jason Thee from NE. Used to hunt with my dad with the Coyote Gods. We used to go up there 2 or 3 times a year and shoot PD. My Swift, his 22-250, and my dads 223 AI, all drifted more at 400 than my 204 AI did. . And I have more people that seen it as well.

Shooting PDís at 300-450 yards, with a 5-10mph cross wind, my hold over was MUCH less than theirs. Thatís a 40gr Nosler in my 204 AI.

-55gr in the 22-250
-50gr in the 220 Swift
-53gr in the 223 AI

My 243 AI and the 6x47 I had, was still more hold over and both of those were/are 69gr.

Iím not at all telling you what you ďdonít knowĒ. And I hope it doesnít come off that way whatsoever. Because thatís not my intentions.

My 223 AI shooting a 40gr at 4000, drops much more than my 204 AI shooting the same bullet at almost identical speeds.

My 204 AI with the 40gr af 4000, without a doubt drifts less at 300-500 yards than my 223 AI, my swift, and my 243 AI.
Posted by: Tim Neitzke

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 01:03 AM

Hmmmm....

I guess I've been doing things wrong all this time.
Poor animals being killed with under powered bullets.

whistle
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 09:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
I guess I see what youíre saying, to an extent. But I do know for an absolute fact, without a doubt, that my 204 drifts less than my 223 AI, and my 220 Swift, at 400.

A buddy of mine, DAA knows him well, Jason Thee from NE. Used to hunt with my dad with the Coyote Gods. We used to go up there 2 or 3 times a year and shoot PD. My Swift, his 22-250, and my dads 223 AI, all drifted more at 400 than my 204 AI did. . And I have more people that seen it as well.

Shooting PDís at 300-450 yards, with a 5-10mph cross wind, my hold over was MUCH less than theirs. Thatís a 40gr Nosler in my 204 AI.

-55gr in the 22-250
-50gr in the 220 Swift
-53gr in the 223 AI

My 243 AI and the 6x47 I had, was still more hold over and both of those were/are 69gr.

Iím not at all telling you what you ďdonít knowĒ. And I hope it doesnít come off that way whatsoever. Because thatís not my intentions.

My 223 AI shooting a 40gr at 4000, drops much more than my 204 AI shooting the same bullet at almost identical speeds.

My 204 AI with the 40gr af 4000, without a doubt drifts less at 300-500 yards than my 223 AI, my swift, and my 243 AI.



Well, yeah, of course a 40 gr 204 will drift less than a 40 gr 224 started at the same speed. It's not magic, its speed + bc that determines drop and drift. That goes for any comparison, it's not a weight issue, it's speed combined with bc.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 09:57 AM

I understand that. I know itís kind of ďstating the obviousĒ. But the whole ďheavier bucks the wind betterĒ isnít the case.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
I understand that. I know itís kind of ďstating the obviousĒ. But the whole ďheavier bucks the wind betterĒ isnít the case.


Form factor being the same, heavier for caliber buck the wind better. That's what most are meaning when they say that.

I shoot a fair amount of 204, and always used the 32's above 4k at pdogs. Without a doubt, the 40's at 3800 buck the wind better and catch the 32s in drop before 200 yds. That's the type of comparison most are making when they say heavier bucks the wind better.

I've also shot a lot of 243 over the years. 58's at 3800 have their place for sure, in fact I'm working on a rifle to do that right now. But for wind bucking, 87 vmax at 3100 clean the floor with them.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 10:40 AM

I under what youíre saying. I do. But thatís still not what Iím getting at either.

A guy from around here shot a 1200yd completion, with a 7mm Mag. 130gr match bullet. Drifted less than a 150 and a 180gr.

My 300 Win mag, shooting 150gr Noslers, drifts far less at 700 then a 180gr AB or ELD.

My 243 AI shooting 69gr Noslers, drifts much less at 400-450 then a 100gr.

Same for my 200 Swift. Same for my 204.

Iím not talking about caliber differences persay. I just used those as examples because of the previous post.

Comparing one caliber to another, or comparing different bullet weights in the same caliber, either wayÖ Heavier bullet weight, bucking the wind better, isnít always the case. Like you said - Speed + B.C -



I can post a link thatís a really good read, if you want to get into crazy detail with it.
Posted by: Tim Neitzke

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 01:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
I under what youíre saying. I do. But thatís still not what Iím getting at either.

A guy from around here shot a 1200yd completion, with a 7mm Mag. 130gr match bullet. Drifted less than a 150 and a 180gr.

My 300 Win mag, shooting 150gr Noslers, drifts far less at 700 then a 180gr AB or ELD.

My 243 AI shooting 69gr Noslers, drifts much less at 400-450 then a 100gr.

Same for my 200 Swift. Same for my 204.

Iím not talking about caliber differences persay. I just used those as examples because of the previous post.

Comparing one caliber to another, or comparing different bullet weights in the same caliber, either wayÖ Heavier bullet weight, bucking the wind better, isnít always the case. Like you said - Speed + B.C -



I can post a link thatís a really good read, if you want to get into crazy detail with it.


So all the heavy for caliber high BC bullet shooting guys are wrong ?
Interesting...
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 01:44 PM

Your sarcasm is definitely unnecessary. I never once said anyone was wrong, or never claimed that I know more than anyone.

Try again hot shot.

I can slow it down for you if youíd like?
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 01:45 PM

Just curious.....whose your gunsmith that has broken all these world records?
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 01:46 PM

Bobby Love out of Jefferson City MO

He shot a couple records with what is now the 224 Texas Trophy Hunter.

Also with a Deuce 35.
Posted by: Coyotejunki

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 02:00 PM

Is Bobby still smithing?
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 02:01 PM

Yes sir, he sure is. He was talking a couple years ago about getting out of it. But heís still going.
Posted by: Tim Neitzke

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 02:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
Your sarcasm is definitely unnecessary. I never once said anyone was wrong, or never claimed that I know more than anyone.

Try again hot shot.

I can slow it down for you if youíd like?


Yep please type slower... I don't read real fast. lol
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 02:23 PM

Y-e-a-h , I N-o-t-i-c-e-d
Posted by: Tim Neitzke

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 02:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
Your sarcasm is definitely unnecessary. I never once said anyone was wrong, or never claimed that I know more than anyone.

Try again hot shot.

I can slow it down for you if youíd like?


What I'm getting at is...

All the reading I've done that last few years from guys that shoot and shoot a lot. Heavy bullets with good BC will trump lighter faster bullets at longer range.


Is this incorrect ?
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 02:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
Bobby Love out of Jefferson City MO




Thank you.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 02:38 PM

I never said it was. Not once.

All I said, was mathematically, yes. Thatís correct.

By physics, and real world shooting, my own and a ton of others experience isnít that way.

It doesnít matter if itís caliber to caliber, or different calibers.

A 130gr out of a 7mm Mag is obviously lighter, and faster than my 300 win mag with a 150grÖ 7mm drifts way less.

My 243 AI, with 69gr Nosler is faster and lighter than my 90-100gr loadsÖ 69gr drifts less.

I had a target at 408 yards. My 204 AI with 40gr and my Uncles 20BR with 32grÖ.

We had a 10-11pm cross wind coming out of the west, blowing straight left to right. The rock I picked out on the left side of the target was where I held and was slapping the target. His 20BR, just on the edge of the target was his hold. Lighter bullet, little more velocity, less drift.

So you tell me.
Posted by: alf

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 03:32 PM

Cartridge or caliber don't mean squat, it's all about the bullet.....

Compare any two bullets of any caliber, with identical BC's, at identical velocities, will drop & drift the same amount.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 03:43 PM

So you think if a 26cal and a 28cal has the same bullet weight and type, and same speed, theyíd drop and drift the same huh..
Posted by: alf

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
So you think if a 26cal and a 28cal has the same bullet weight and type, and same speed, theyíd drop and drift the same huh..

Re-read what I wrote......
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 03:49 PM

No, he's saying if they had the same bullet BC and speed, they'd drop/drift the same. He said nothing about weight.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 04:01 PM

OkÖ

So if a 22cal and a 20cal, had the same bullet type and BC, loaded at the same velocity, theyíd drop and drift the sameÖ Thatís what youíre saying

Any caliber, any cartridge, doesnít matter. Right?
Posted by: alf

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 04:05 PM

Here, knock yourself out.....

https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 04:12 PM

Oh boy lol
Posted by: B23

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 04:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
I guess I see what youíre saying, to an extent. But I do know for an absolute fact, without a doubt, that my 204 drifts less than my 223 AI, and my 220 Swift, at 400.


Part of the problem with your argument is you can't make broad sweeping claims like the above without giving specifics.

In an earlier post you said "I'm science and I'm reality" well the physics of your claim/s are only supported when you are comparing apples and oranges. I used your .20 cal 40gr 4000fps VS .22 Cal 80gr 3500fps example and the physics doesn't support your claim, actually, it wasn't even close and beyond 400 yards the 3500fps 80gr left the 4000 40gr in the dust.

Also, maybe it's just how I'm reading some of these posts but drop and drift are two entirely different things.
Posted by: Austin Laughlin

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 04:27 PM

My uncles first load he made up for that 20BR, was a 39gr Sierra. 43 or 4400fps.

It drifted less that 5Ē at 500 yards.

Youíre saying an 80gr at 3500, does less.

And Iím telling you without a doubt, thatís not the case. At all. Iíve seen it. So have tons of others. Itís like ďhow in the heck does it do thatĒ. But it does it.

I feel like Iím talking to a wall.

What Iím saying is this..

If he takes his 20BR and holds dead center of a target with a 5-10pm cross wind at 400. You take a 80gr at 3500 and do the same, and youíll see that Iím right lol

Yíall can have your opinions. Thatís great. Iím not saying at all that itís ďdumbĒ or any of that. Whatsoever. Iíll agree to disagree because this is going nowhere lol
Posted by: alf

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 04:44 PM


You better get a hold of JBM and tell 'em they're FOS....



39 Sierra @ 4300
Range Drop Windage Velocity

500 - -24.2 -20.9 -2431
600 - -42.2 -31.7 -2139
700 - -67.8 -45.9 -1867
800 - -103.5 -64.0 -1620
900 - -152.6 -86.7 -1403
1000- -219.3 -114.8 -1224

80 Sierra @ 3500
500 - -32.1 -15.2 -2436
600 - -52.9 -22.6 -2251
700 - -80.5 -32.0 -2075
800 - -116.3 -43.4 -1906
900 - -161.6 -57.3 -1747
1000- -218.3 -73.8 -1598
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 04:49 PM

Some of what you're seeing could be a case of not enough twist, say in the instance of an 80 gr .224 (didn't mention what bullet or what it's bc is, which is important), if it starts to lose stabilization at longer ranges. A barely stabilized bullet will get picked apart by wind, just like a quarterback not throwing tight spirals will have a tougher time in the wind than one that does. I didn't run the numbers on this last comparison so I don't know how it should turn out.

I don't know how to explain what you're seeing out there, because my experience, and anything I've ever read about (up till today lol) is exactly opposite. Thus the reason long sleek bullets and faster twists are all the rage, so people can get predictable results at extended range.

At any rate, agreeing to disagree is probably the best outcome here, talking to a wall is a good analogy.

Are you in the southern hemisphere by any chance? I heard things spin backwards down there lol lol
Posted by: B23

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Austin Laughlin
My uncles first load he made up for that 20BR, was a 39gr Sierra. 43 or 4400fps.

It drifted less that 5Ē at 500 yards.

Youíre saying an 80gr at 3500, does less.

And Iím telling you without a doubt, thatís not the case. At all. Iíve seen it. So have tons of others. Itís like ďhow in the heck does it do thatĒ. But it does it.

I feel like Iím talking to a wall.

What Iím saying is this..

If he takes his 20BR and holds dead center of a target with a 5-10pm cross wind at 400. You take a 80gr at 3500 and do the same, and youíll see that Iím right lol

Yíall can have your opinions. Thatís great. Iím not saying at all that itís ďdumbĒ or any of that. Whatsoever. Iíll agree to disagree because this is going nowhere lol

Again, are you talking about bullet drop or bullet drift because they are entirely two different things.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful but your claims are ridiculous without specifics to support them and I'm still not sure if you're talking about drift as in left to right or drop as in up or down.

If you're talking about wind drift and your uncles 4300fps 39gr BK only drifting 5 inches at 500 yards we need to know wind speed and its angle because even in a half value 5 mph wind, which by the way isn't much and one not often found in PD fields, DRIFT is going to be over 7 inches with that 39gr BK and with a 3500fps 80gr ELDM in identical conditions DRIFT is only 5 inches.
Posted by: B23

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 05:07 PM

The biggest variable is going to be hold/point of aim. Even the slightest difference in hold or POA on a PD at 500 yards can screw the end result significantly.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 05:18 PM

At least we have a lively thread on here for once, even if we did hijack the op's thread to do it.

Sorry op!
Posted by: alf

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By: 204 AR
At least we have a lively thread on here for once, even if we did hijack the op's thread to do it.

It's all his fault anyway....ha ha....

He never did say what it's use would be for, so we're left to our own imagination.

It's like asking "I wanna buy a truck, what should I get?"
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 06:59 PM

He hasn't been back since his first couple of posts....so carry on. This is more interesting anyway.
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/28/22 11:12 PM

Ya'll need to pull your tally whackers out, take pics and send em to the moderator of this forum. he can decide who is correct. lol
Posted by: Tim Neitzke

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/29/22 03:33 PM

Originally Posted By: pyscodog
He hasn't been back since his first couple of posts....so carry on. This is more interesting anyway.


You are welcome ! grin
Posted by: Tim Neitzke

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/29/22 03:37 PM

Slick...
No need for that I'm pretty sure what side of the wall is right.

Funny idea though. lol

Btw, My hunting partner killed a coyote this morning with that #4 buck I bought from you ! I was tracking he was shooting.
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: 22-250, 204 or something else? - 01/29/22 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Tim Neitzke


Btw, My hunting partner killed a coyote this morning with that #4 buck I bought from you ! I was tracking he was shooting.


tell partner i said good job. smile