How long could you last...

Posted by: GC

How long could you last... - 05/08/19 09:26 AM

If you were attacked and knocked to the ground by a determined attacker armed with a knife trying to kill you, how would you fare in this situation? Also to a point, in light of some recent discussion about revolver vs. semi auto and malfunctions in close quarter contact, notice what happens in the second scenario. How many CCW guys carry an easily accessible backup weapon of some sort? Could you even get to that if tied up like this? How long could you grapple and ground fight before exhausted?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=La56KNz9FFA

EDIT TO ADD THIS VIDEO. From standing start...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CTwH-PS9ydM
Posted by: Brad Phillips

Re: How long could you last... - 05/08/19 10:38 AM

Knocked to the ground and attacker has a knife. That is a tough situation.

Even if you are armed, they Already have the momentum and a head start.
Posted by: Plant.One

Re: How long could you last... - 05/08/19 10:51 AM

i mean.. if i got attacked by a UFC fighter... i'd probably be screwed.

the average schmooball on the street... unless i'm blindsided/ambushed i would like to believe i can throw my weight around enough to hold my own. i'm not suggesting i would get away unscathed, but i'd do everything in my power to make sure the badguy was on the gurney next to me when the wambamulance got there.

and yes i have a backup weapon (assisted open knife) on me. however its also on my strong side, but thats related to where the pockets are.
Posted by: spotstalkshoot

Re: How long could you last... - 05/08/19 12:05 PM

Lucky for everyone no trained UFC knife wielding (women or men) are surprise attacking individuals on the street. Handgun, probably just as likely to shoot yourself as your attacker in a ground and pound situation. At 59, even though I run,exercise and used to practice karate. I would be lucky to last 2 minutes with someone, half my age,trained,my size, on top hand to hand. That said they would not be wearing a helmet, so eyes become a very good target with my non dominant hand. All it takes is a second to change the outcome.
Posted by: reloader326

Re: How long could you last... - 05/08/19 12:53 PM

Grappling / wrestling like that is very tough, if you are not conditioned for it, it is very exhausting, very quickly. Especially against a stronger opponent. I did that when I was much younger. Add true adrenaline, not just nervousness, into the mix and you'll feel like a wet pile of noodles.
I do carry a knife always, but not always my CCW.
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/08/19 05:32 PM

To nobody in particular, remember that you get the fight you get. Not necessarily the one you want.
Posted by: Varminterror

Re: How long could you last... - 05/08/19 11:15 PM

23yrs on the mat, 15 wearing a singlet for competition, and 12 wearing pijamas for this reason. If I carry a gun, I carry a knife, and if I carry a knife, I carry grappling and striking experience. At my size and physical appearance, Iím rarely considered an easy target, however, so playing too many ďwhat ifĒ games doesnít make much sense. My mother in law and my wife need much greater instruction on preventing this kind of situation than a grown, physically fit man.
Posted by: Brad Phillips

Re: How long could you last... - 05/09/19 09:42 AM

The number of people who are not aware of their surroundings just amazes me. I try to be aware at all times and keep my head on a swivel.

Being caught off guard is a bad start to a bad situation. One of my big fears.
Posted by: crapshoot

Re: How long could you last... - 05/09/19 06:09 PM

I'd last long enough to get myass handed to me... unless I could get a round in him first. Situational awareness can be a great early warning system and can help prevent many situations.
Posted by: prairiefire

Re: How long could you last... - 05/09/19 06:23 PM

I would be dead in a heartbeat!
Posted by: ackleyman

Re: How long could you last... - 05/10/19 06:37 PM



Your best and perhaps your ONLY Defense is paying attention on what is going on around you.

Know your state's Castle Doctrine in how it relates to your home and your car in dealing with threats to you and your family.

The crap that is being let out of jails now is unbelievable. If Joe Public had to serve 5 days a year helping jailers, similar to jury duty, our country would have much different laws.
Posted by: mserman

Re: How long could you last... - 05/12/19 12:27 AM

This is the worst thread on PM
[img:left]https://tenor.com/view/napoleon-dynamite-rex-karate-gif-12901452[/img]
Posted by: OKRattler

Re: How long could you last... - 05/12/19 02:00 AM

It purely depends on the situation and the people in that situation. If you're caught off guard by an attacker with a knife I'll just let you know now you're going to get cut up at the very least or stabbed several times so go ahead and plan on that right now before the situation takes place. Adrenaline will probably set in and if you're not stabbed too bad you might be able to fight back. Or there might be blood squirting out of your jugular and you'll lay there and not do anything except bleed to death. Lots of what ifs and mights and maybes playing out that scenario in your head.

How long would I last in a fight for my life? Until my attacker killed me or I killed my attacker. That's the only real solid answer I can give anyone. Am I fighting a professional or semi professional fighter,a thug,a lunatic,a person on PCP,an old man,a woman perhaps?....Too many variables to consider. If it happens I'll either die or live. I'm prepared for either honestly.

If I get stabbed in the throat probably not long. If I'm cut and bleeding and rolling around I guess until I can bite that person's nose or some other body part off,dig an eye out,choke them to death or tear a nutsack off and get that knife away from 'em. I don't know how many seconds or minutes that'd take but about that long.
Posted by: ackleyman

Re: How long could you last... - 05/12/19 11:13 PM

Take the knife out of the situation.

Now, how long would you last:

a. guy comes up to you telling you that you had just dropped something right after you exit the grocery store, big smile on his face, friendly body language. He gets within arms length of you and knocks the [beeep] out of you and continues the punching.

b. four teenagers jump you in Wal Mart parking lot,they are using pipes. major fight in progresses.

c. you walk by a guy that is leaning up against the wall talking on his phone, and he sucker punches you.

You had better know your state laws in these circumstances in how the law allows for reasonable defense.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/12/19 11:45 PM

If your not in tip top shape, and from the cloths many of you have sold in the classifieds, your not, then prepare for an azz whoopin. If your retired, your not the bad azz you think you are, prepare for an azz whoopin. If four teens with piped jump you, pray you live. A&C,if you can get into a close by business, you may make it out with a black eye or a bruise or two. You may be LUCKY, not good, enough to get your concealed firearm out but if the bad guy is close enough to punch you in the face, he's already on top of you.

My son is 35 and real close to 200 pounds. Works everyday and strong as bull. I'm 70,fair shape physically, weight about 170. No way I could fight him off, gun or not. My point is you can think you are good enough to fight off an attack but in reality.....probably not.
Posted by: tnshootist

Re: How long could you last... - 05/13/19 12:18 AM

When the SHTF you can't remember your name much less the Plan.
Posted by: ackleyman

Re: How long could you last... - 05/13/19 12:38 AM

Ok, you are an old man/woman, maybe a middle age or a person with certain disabilities. In your state, can you pull a fire arm to defend yourself, or even a knife?

How about this situation, you see the a highway patrolman has pulled over a car, and the patrolman is by himself in a fight with a suspect, and the suspect is getting the upper hand knocking the patrolman to the ground. Ok, you are an old man, what can you legally do to help the patrolman? If you have cops in your family, you think about this on every traffic stop you see.

State's are very, very different in their laws. Educate yourself on your state laws.

Where I live, Four surrounding County Sheriffs want everyone that can legally do so to get a Concealed Weapon's permit. One of the Sheriffs went on the local news said that he was tired of seeing victims, and people should arm themselves.

GC's scenario maybe a good reason for "open carry" of firearms. The guy with the knife may choose another victim other than you.
Posted by: BigGrizz

Re: How long could you last... - 05/13/19 12:47 AM

Why tf would I let you get that close anyway?

If you're coming from behind me- yeah, done deal.

Coming from the side? I could see someone getting the upper hand, but they better come with more than a knife.

Head-to-head coming at me with a weapon? Two to the juice box and one to the hard drive and it's going to happen fast. The aggressor will either be turning tale, we'll get each other after a mexican standoff or he/she is going to be down. I'll deal with the legal consequences afterward and I hope I never see the day. I much prefer living free with a good job in Western WY.
Posted by: EMP3

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 02:41 PM

Extremely unrealistic, so much so that it conveys no useful knowledge. Those videos are entertainment.

How would you survive this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0SsIZbkQGQ

The deputy's tactical response was textbook. Most importantly, she remained completely composed when confronted by the most dangerous of bad guys.

A good quality semiauto is more reliable than any revolver. I've had 2 S&W revolvers fail. I've known of countless others. When revolvers fail, they're outta da fight. I've never seen a Sig P220, P226, or P229 fail. Ever. Revolvers have more parts and more moving parts than semis.

A semi has 2 moving parts.

An assailant armed with a knife can close 21' and kill a good guy before he could bring his holstered handgun to battery (able to fire a round).

How a bad guy holds a knife will reveal his proficiency.

Size does matter. A George Foreman punch might kill a bad guy. A punch from a welterweight would probably hurt. The best UFC fighter ain't gonna win against a 250 pound NFL linebacker. Herschel Walker was 48 years old and schooling UFC fighters in pain.

Survivors know how to avoid, and when that's not an option, how to survive.

Buy this book: https://secure.calibrepress.com/shop/books/street-survival-ii-hardcover/ Professionals who've survived actual deadly encounters reveal survival tactics.

BTW, it's called martial arts for a reason. Martial arts movies are choreographed.
Posted by: C.Jay

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 04:35 PM

I'm not quite as youthful now days, I am no where near as strong as I was 20 yrs ago and when driving fence posts and other manual labor tasks on my small ranch, I tire much sooner and I recover a lot slower as well. As others have said, situational awareness is key.
Remember this:
Avoidance...
De-escalation...
Overwhelming and complete violence...in that order.

I do not allow myself or my wife to get into an at risk situation to begin with.
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: EMP3
Extremely unrealistic, so much so that it conveys no useful knowledge. Those videos are entertainment.

How would you survive this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0SsIZbkQGQ

The deputy's tactical response was textbook. Most importantly, she remained completely composed when confronted by the most dangerous of bad guys.

A good quality semiauto is more reliable than any revolver. I've had 2 S&W revolvers fail. I've known of countless others. When revolvers fail, they're outta da fight. I've never seen a Sig P220, P226, or P229 fail. Ever. Revolvers have more parts and more moving parts than semis.

A semi has 2 moving parts.

An assailant armed with a knife can close 21' and kill a good guy before he could bring his holstered handgun to battery (able to fire a round).

How a bad guy holds a knife will reveal his proficiency.

Size does matter. A George Foreman punch might kill a bad guy. A punch from a welterweight would probably hurt. The best UFC fighter ain't gonna win against a 250 pound NFL linebacker. Herschel Walker was 48 years old and schooling UFC fighters in pain.

Survivors know how to avoid, and when that's not an option, how to survive.

Buy this book: https://secure.calibrepress.com/shop/books/street-survival-ii-hardcover/ Professionals who've survived actual deadly encounters reveal survival tactics.

BTW, it's called martial arts for a reason. Martial arts movies are choreographed.


In reference to the videos it is apples to oranges, two completely different scenarios for two completely different training scenarios.

A semi only has two moving parts? C'mon...
Posted by: Varminterror

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 06:05 PM

The line about the UFC fighter and the linebacker above is absolutely hysterical. The first few UFC events some odd 20yrs ago put that kind of BS to the test. A tiny Brazilian man who would, by all accounts, be dangerous, but at a significant disadvantage in the modern UFC, bested many far larger opponents. No weight classes, no holds barred, no gloves. Thatís how it started. And a skilled Brazilian jiu jitsu player walked away with the whole thing.

The bit about the semi auto and moving parts is really just sad. Largely indicative this guy has never opened one up, and certainly not used either enough to understand their design nor reliability.
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 08:14 PM

Stand by, I'm waiting to be edified. Once edified it should all become much clearer. smile
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 09:25 PM

Originally Posted By: GC
Stand by, I'm waiting to be edified.


dang. that sounds painful. does a lubricant help?
Posted by: DesertRam

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 11:23 PM

I suppose I just need to last long enough for the wife and kids to get to safety. Anything more than that is gravy. I suffer no illusions of grandeur. I'm just an ordinary average semi-soft middle-aged guy with enough sense to pay attention with the hope of avoiding bad situations and, hopefully, enough civilian-available training to help increase my odds a little. If faced with a determined bad guy in a tight situation, I'm probably gonna lose. But I ain't gonna quit.
Posted by: EMP3

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 11:25 PM

Originally Posted By: GC

In reference to the videos it is apples to oranges, two completely different scenarios for two completely different training scenarios.

A semi only has two moving parts? C'mon...


Dead is dead. How dead occurs is immaterial. Hence, it's a congruent comparison.

As fa as semis having two moving parts, here's another book for you to buy:
https://www.vickersguide.com/1911
Posted by: EMP3

Re: How long could you last... - 05/14/19 11:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Varminterror
The line about the UFC fighter and the linebacker above is absolutely hysterical. The first few UFC events some odd 20yrs ago put that kind of BS to the test. A tiny Brazilian man who would, by all accounts, be dangerous, but at a significant disadvantage in the modern UFC, bested many far larger opponents. No weight classes, no holds barred, no gloves. Thatís how it started. And a skilled Brazilian jiu jitsu player walked away with the whole thing.

The bit about the semi auto and moving parts is really just sad. Largely indicative this guy has never opened one up, and certainly not used either enough to understand their design nor reliability.


My suggestion is to gain knowledge.

99.9% of choreographed fighting (martial arts) wind up as street brawls when they're out of cages.

As far as semi moving parts, argue with this guy and set him straight:

https://www.vickerstactical.com/about-larry-vickers.html

I'll make it easy for you. Here's his email:

larry@vickerstactical.com

Let us know how it turns out.

BTW, Larry is a patient man. He'll help you out in a very respectful manner.

One more BTW, I have had my Springfield Armory TRP disassembled about a month ago.

We'll disregard the big $$$ taxpayers have spent to scientifically train me. Here's a huge clue that might save your life: never allow a bag guy who intends to reduce you to evidence and your corpse autopsied the following morning get close enough to touch you. Increase that geometrically if he's armed.

One you're locked eyes with a psychopathic murderer who'll reduce you to room temperature in a heartbeat, you'll never forget the look and feeling, neither being warm and fuzzy.
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 07:05 AM

Originally Posted By: EMP3
Originally Posted By: GC

In reference to the videos it is apples to oranges, two completely different scenarios for two completely different training scenarios.

A semi only has two moving parts? C'mon...


Dead is dead. How dead occurs is immaterial. Hence, it's a congruent comparison.

As fa as semis having two moving parts, here's another book for you to buy:
https://www.vickersguide.com/1911


TRAINING SPECIFIC SCENARIOS... Just for fun, I don't learn 1,000 yard rifle shooting by taking my shotgun and busting 25 clays on the skeet range. That is apples to oranges and I'm not sure how or why you miss that point. For clarity, I'm not advocating anything here. I posted the videos purely for discussion as a "what if" thing.

Could you please cite from Mr. Vickers book where he states there are only two moving parts in the semi automatic handgun? Better yet, expand on that yourself for discussion?
Posted by: SnowmanMo

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 09:59 AM

Originally Posted By: GC
To nobody in particular, remember that you get the fight you get. Not necessarily the one you want.


So, so true. You have to make sure that your skills can come UP to the severity of the situation and not HOPE that the situation's severity will come DOWN to your level of skill. "Training" is more than blowing holes in the dirt once in a while. Even the most basic hand to hand skills are not hard to learn and practice and could make the difference. You also need to practice your mindset.

Good luck is when opportunity meets preparation, while bad luck is when lack of preparation meets reality--Eliyahu Goldratt
Posted by: hm1996

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 11:36 AM

Quote:
Could you please cite from Mr. Vickers book where he states there are only two moving parts in the semi automatic handgun? Better yet, expand on that yourself for discussion?


That's easy, Gary. Gotta be the front sight and rear sight (when in use unsure).

Regards,
hm
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 12:32 PM

Originally Posted By: hm1996
Quote:
Could you please cite from Mr. Vickers book where he states there are only two moving parts in the semi automatic handgun? Better yet, expand on that yourself for discussion?


That's easy, Gary. Gotta be the front sight and rear sight (when in use unsure).

Regards,
hm


LOL...
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 12:33 PM

Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: GC
Stand by, I'm waiting to be edified.


dang. that sounds painful. does a lubricant help?


Painless so far. But I don't think he is very good at it.
Posted by: EMP3

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 01:41 PM

GC,

You're in desperation for a way out of your predicament.

It wouldn't matter what I write. You've postured yourself in a defensive position in which you're defending videos of no tactical value except for armchair commandos.

You're obviously reluctant to email Larry Vickers, and I can see why. Show us your considerable skills. Contact Mr. Vickers and set him straight. You're a trained killer. It should be an easy dojo outing for you

Writing from a position of actual knowledge born of professional training and experience, martial artists are clueless. They're good within controlled contests. They're just another victim when they assume they're gonna intimidate an authentic bad guy. Just about every martial artist I've ever met loved to pick fights with people whom they felt they could whip. I've never seen a black belt pick a fight with an outlaw biker who had no clue of what a dojo was.

Bruce Lee was an actor. Every single one of his "fight" scenes was choreographed.

Here's a true story: while I was in college, there was a wannabe tough guy who probably used to watch grasshopper playing a flute while walking barefoot across the American West, trippin' on peyote. A starting linebacker for the SF '49'ers (Other NFL players used to work out at my college's weight room. Every single one was studly and polite.) used to work out at my college's weight room during the off season. He was a self-confident stud who knew he didn't have to prove a thing to anyone. He was extremely quiet, polite, and, when asked, helpful. Young grasshopper thought he'd make a name for himself by picking a fight with SF linebacker. After all, grasshopper was a trained killer, and the linebacker (I remember his name) was merely a professional football player. The LB gave the trained killer every opportunity to rethink his planned exhibition of trained killer dancing. The moron was too stupid to figure out when he was accorded opportunity to bow out without painful consequences. He hopped into his trained killer stance. It was over inside of 10 seconds with the trained killer's blood all over the locker room shower area and not a mark on the professional LB . BTW, there might have been 15 pounds weight difference between the two. All witnesses knew trained killer started the fight, pro LB gave him every opportunity to walk away w/o pain, and LB merely defended himself from a martial artist who was stupid to believe in fantasies.

Martial arts is opium for armchair commandos.

Here's what I was taught: when a bad guy decides he ain't going along with the program, what you think you know is useless info, for it will become a street brawl. That's why professional law enforcement officers carry striking and gas weapons. The idea is to not allow anyone to get close enough to touch a professional. Don't let my training, expertise, and experience conflict with your fantasies. Go with your trained killer knowledge.

Now get to working on setting Larry Vickers straight. He's in desperate need of your considerable skills.

As for me, I don't have to prove a thing to you. I'm merely trying to prevent what you think you know from getting you into a predicament that will not turn out good for you.

Your videos were entertainment for the uninitiated.

The three most difficult words for trained killers to say, "I was wrong."

Let us know how your interaction with Larry turns out.


Here's one more attempt to help you out: authentic bad guys will never telegraph what they intend to do to you. You'll know their intentions after they've done it to you. That's the importance of recognizing cues of authentic bad guys. The ones remaining vertical are the wise. They know of the life-preserving importance of avoidance.
Posted by: EMP3

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 01:56 PM

Anecdote:

Wannabe tough guy applied for a sworn position for a law enforcement agency about a year after the NFL LB cleaned his clock. He was not hired. LE background investigations are primarily designed to ID applicants who should not be cops, and trained killer was never a cop. My guess is he dropped out and worked at menial jobs. I had heard he was busted for trying to impersonate a law enforcement officer. I ran across him decades later. I felt sorry for him. He was no longer doing martial arts. He obviously lacked bubbles in his plumb line.
Posted by: Brad Phillips

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 04:15 PM

What? I was supposed to watch a video ?
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: GC
[quote=EMP3]Could you please cite from Mr. Vickers book where he states there are only two moving parts in the semi automatic handgun? Better yet, expand on that yourself for discussion?


think you are not going to get an answer.

this guy might be related to that guy from oklahoma that showed up awhile back. 1assassin was his handle. great dude. smile
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 04:22 PM

I'm still trying to figure out the only two moving parts.
Posted by: hm1996

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 05:58 PM

Originally Posted By: pyscodog
I'm still trying to figure out the only two moving parts.


Obviously you haven't tried to keep the front and rear sights from moving, or you would know, Bill. wink
Next time I break down my 1911, I'm gonna leave a lot of those little bitty pieces and parts out; obviously they don't do nothin'.

Regards,
hm
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 06:37 PM

thumbup
Posted by: Tnslim

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 07:31 PM

Good grief, Woody's back.
Posted by: crittr gittr

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 07:40 PM

No Slim, it's just summertime on PM
Posted by: ackleyman

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 08:39 PM

"One you're locked eyes with a psychopathic murderer who'll reduce you to room temperature in a heartbeat, you'll never forget the look and feeling, neither being warm and fuzzy."

Especially if he is holding a model 19 with Winchester Silver Tips looking at you!
Posted by: Varminterror

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 10:11 PM

What a moron
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/15/19 10:46 PM

W T H are you pontificating about? My "predicament" is trying to make some semblance of sense from your incoherent ramblings. First, did you not comprehend that I am NOT presenting, promoting or defending any particular tactic in the thread? The point was to cause us all to think about the scenario and how we would deal with that particular situation. To create a little dialogue along the self defense topic. You come along and give a completely different scenario and blather on about a bunch of nonsense that leads to nowhere.

Additionally, you are the only poster in this thread that claims to be a "trained killer." A "scientifically trained" one at that.

Finally, I'm still waiting for you to cite from Vickers book or better yet your own self aggrandizing resume the only two working parts of a semi auto handgun. Put up or shut up.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 01:03 PM

He doesn't seem to know much about Bruce Lee either. unsure
Posted by: EMP3

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 01:22 PM

GC,

You ought to consider chilling. Losing composure is not a positive indicator of knowledge. Itís obvious that a lot of what you want to believe is not true. Youíve not reached knowledge. When you do, youíll be able to admit that much of what you believe is wrong.

The Ďnet has made tactical experts outta iron pyrite. Foolís gold is valuable to only fools. Your videos that you want to believe demonstrate tactical responses are iron pyrite. Theyíre illusions of tactics designed to make one marketable to the naÔve. After all, people have ridden youtube fame to big bucks.

Youíve assumed far too much. Might just be that I have actual knowledge of what you desperately need: knowledge of survival tactics.

I have a friend (since high school) who was the world heavyweight kickboxing champion. He knocked out the then reigning champion with a straight right hand. His name is Kirk. Heís a black belt of many degrees, most of which are worthless. Heíll tell you so. Heís personal friends with Chuck Norris since long before Chuck found fame. If this forum were compatible, Iíd post a 40 year-old photo of Kirk with Chuck and Red West. Red West was Elvisís lifelong friend and a personal body guard. Kirk was at least 8Ē taller than Norris. He was a much better fighter than Norris. According to So Cal beach cities women, he was 100% more handsome than Norris. Iíve watched solid So Cal 10 women, drop dead gorgeous, smoking hot women throw themselves at Kirk. God blessed him with incredible athletic ability (he was good at every sport he tried), movie star handsome looks, has a genuinely charming personality, yet he was burdened with a serious, debilitating learning disability.

Youíll run across a lot of BS like youíre slinging on the Ďnet. But hereís a fact: if Kirk hadnít suffered dyslexia, you never would have heard of Chuck Norris. Kirk was the real deal. On Kirkís worst day, heíd have whipped Norris on his best day. However, during a cold reading for a movie, Kirk could not read a script. He has done TV and film extra work. A few years ago, he was in a ďShark WeekĒ commercial.

After Kirk won the crown in Japan, he suffered a career ending ankle injury that required extensive surgery to repair. It ended his professional fighting career. Kirk is in the Karate Hall of Fame, some seriously big deal for the easily impressed. Kirk knows the real players of professional fighting.

Kirk, like all real deal professionals, doesnít street fight. He rarely talks about fighting. He has walked away from chumps who thought (poorly) that theyíd become famous if they whipped the heavyweight kick boxing champion of the world. Dudes who have it have no reason to prove it. Thatís a rank amateur thing. Fighting is for whack jobs and wannabes.

There is no doubt in my mind that Floyd Mayweather carried Conor McGregor for nine rounds. Mayweather could have ended the bout in the second. McGregor was a rank amateur fighting a consummate professional. But there was huge money involved with a potential for future huge paydays (rematches). A dude I know who was a ranked middleweight boxer told me that Mayweather degraded boxing by fighting McGregor. I hadnít seen it from that angle. But he was right. McGregor was not close to Mayweatherís league. Mayweather shouldnít have compromised his sport by fighting a chump. But huge money cause some people to make huge mistakes of judgment.

When I began my profession, I discussed arrest control techniques with Kirk. He very politely told me that if what I was taught worked, it would have been because suspects allowed it to work. He told me that if a suspect didnít acquiesce to the program, 9-out-of-10 times itíd become a street brawl where there are no referees, size will matter (know use of force continuum), and determination and street fighting skills would assuredly prevail. (Never confuse street fighting skills with competition skills.) Whack a dusted (PCP) dude with a third growth hickory baton and expect no pain reaction.

Many years ago, Kirk told me that he wished he had stuck with boxing. He was the dude to told me that itís called martial arts for a reason. He told me that a good boxer will whip the best martial artist every time. When a martial artist leaves a foot to kick, heíll become extremely vulnerable. For your edification, youíre strongest with both feet on the ground at shoulder width apart. Kirk won the heavyweight kick boxing championship because he was a superb boxer. Had he stuck with boxing, professional trainers were lined up to manage him. Heíd have been ranked within the top ten. He probably would have gotten a title shot. He was an excellent athlete.

Every single martial arts movie and TV show youíve ever watched and will watch was/will be BS. Every single fight scene is choreographed. Itís nothing more than a scripted dance designed to appear violent.

Kirk will be the first to tell you that competing in a controlled environment of a ring is far from a street fight where there are no rules. He also told me, which I already knew from other sports, that size disparity is a huge factor. A professional heavyweight boxer could kill a man with a single punch. A welterweight might inflict pain.

UFC is a joke compared to professional boxing. Kirk thinks the Gracie brothers are frauds who proved wisdom of PT Barnum. The Garcie headliner was a cheat as well as a fraud. He was good for steroids. He was schooled by another UFC one-hit-wonder. UFC is entertainment, not a sport.

What you think you know, what you think are legitimate tactical scenarios, are junk to those of us whoíve been taught by the best survival instructors. Youíre merely defending media hype due to lack of knowledge.

Iíve partied with many of Kirkís friends including Howard Jackson, who was a close friend of Chuck Norris. He was in many of Norrisís films. Howard Jackson was a genuinely nice dude. Iíve partied with Aaron Norris, Chuckís brother. Who the heck cares? That didnít impress me. They merely happened to be hanging with Kirk when we partied. Growing up in a So Cal beach city, it was very common to run across professional athletes, rock stars, and movie stars. Gerry Quarry, who was ranked No. 1 heavyweight in the world and fought Ali, used to hang out in a nightclub in Huntington Beach.

Most of Kirkís karate associates were con artists, weasels, dope slingers, and losers. Iíve liked very, very few. They didnít like me. They knew Iíd have taken them to jail in a New York second. One such super black belt con artist was popped by another agency. He came to me thinking heíd be able to con me into helping him. I blew him off hoping Iíd do him for another crime. He perturbed me when he told he that another cop was working him. He told me that he wanted to avoid kicking the other copís rear end. You probably know what followed. I got right in karate con artistís face and told him that if he touched that cop, after he was released from a local hospital, he wouldnít be able to bail himself out of jail. And I told him that the other cop was a studly Midwest farm boy who was raised on corn fed beef. I told him that that farm boy cop would clean his black belt rear end.

Hopefully, my trying to help you out will cause you to think about what you believe to be true. When you reach that point, youíll view videos like the two youíve posted as self-promotional garbage.

Never allow a dude whom you think wants to harm you get close enough to touch you. Ever. That is a basic survival tactic.

Hereís another fact that is of tremendous help to the wise: when a psychopath decides to kill, he will and thereís very little if anything youíd be able to do to prevent it. Not even a loaded S&W Model 19 (a psycho would assuredly be the new owner of it) would be much good. Thatís because action is faster than reaction (scientific). The psychopath has the decided advantage of initiating action. The most fearsome is a whack job who isnít afraid of dying.

The posters here who know the importance of avoidance possess wisdom you might want to acquire.

If you want to post a video worth reviewing, post one that addresses the importance of situational awareness and avoidance.

There are only two rules of gun fighting:

1. The only known way of surviving a gunfight is to not get in one.

2. If Rule One is not an option, donít get shot.

All other rules are subordinate to Rules One and Two.

Stationary target shooting is not tactical training, not even close. If youíre standing still shooting at any stationary target, itís target shooting, not tactical training.

I can carry a gun anywhere the American flag flies. I couldnít tell you the last time Iíve urban carried. It might be close to a decade ago, maybe longer I live by avoidance, I donít go to bad places, and I get along with people. Iíd walk away from a potential fight. Fighting is for the stupid who lack intellectual skills.

If you think any of what Iíve posted is BS, fly out to John Wayne. Iíll pick you up, introduce you to Kirk, and show you a So Cal fantastic time (bikini season is a week away). Lord knows, Kirk and I have incredible memories of our indulgent, beach city youth. In fact, when Kirk and I talk, we rarely talk fighting.

GC, my advice for you is to chill and learn. Or you can follow the path youíre on. Youíre the captain of your ship. Whether you remain vertical will depend upon choices you make. The wise choose survival (avoidance). A gunfight, by definition, means a bad guy wants you dead.

Just about everyone on the Ďnet with a Glock thinks heís a tactical expert. Just about everyone whoís worn a karate gi thinks heís a trained killer.

Finally, argumentum ad hominem is logical fallacy. Itís used when one lacks intellectual skills to refute facts. My guess is you havenít emailed Larry Vickers. Heís the real deal. Heís not an Ďnet enigma like the dude in videos youíve posted. Iíve written what heís written in his excellent 1911 book. That was a fact. If you want to refute it, go directly to its source: Larry Vickers. Your gimmick of pinning Vickersís fact to me is classic logical fallacy. Hence, your argument (you donít have one) isnít with me. Itís with Larry. So put up or keep quiet thus keeping assumption in play. If you think Larryís wrong, email him and set him straight. Like the professional that he is, Larry is extremely polite and cordial. He has nothing to prove. Heíll help you.

My sincere best of luck to you.
Posted by: EMP3

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 01:22 PM

BTW, I'm planning on attending the Predator Masters shindig at Elko this year. I'll bring photos.
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 01:45 PM

good grief. that was the longest post of pure bullchit i have ever bothered to read on here. blah, blah, blah and more blah. nobody gives a crap about kirt.

talk about stupid.
Posted by: EMP3

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
good grief. that was the longest post of pure bullchit i have ever bothered to read on here. blah, blah, blah and more blah. nobody gives a crap about kirt.

talk about stupid.


I'll take you opinion under submission.

If you didn't like it, why did you read it.

It's obvious that you've missed basis of knowledge, which is foundational of veracity.

Jus' sayin'...
Posted by: Varminterror

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 01:59 PM

When I read a post like that, I canít help but think - I bet it takes a long time to air a fart out of his motherís basement...
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 02:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Varminterror
When I read a post like that, I canít help but think - I bet it takes a long time to air a fart out of his motherís basement...


yeah, you cant help but feel sorry for his mother.
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 03:59 PM

Lord love a duck! smile
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnot
Originally Posted By: GC
[quote=EMP3]Could you please cite from Mr. Vickers book where he states there are only two moving parts in the semi automatic handgun? Better yet, expand on that yourself for discussion?


think you are not going to get an answer.

this guy might be related to that guy from oklahoma that showed up awhile back. 1assassin was his handle. great dude. smile


If it's not 1Assassin it is his brother by a different mother.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 04:49 PM

A whole lot of talk and nothing said except Kirk is Gods gift to women. Who really cares??? 1Assasin where are you. We need you now.
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 07:34 PM

Originally Posted By: pyscodog
A whole lot of talk and nothing said except Kirk is Gods gift to women.


sounds like kirk is gods gift to emp3 too. some man crush going on there? scared
Posted by: CRE10

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 08:31 PM

Kirk autographed my whitey tighties back in '94
Posted by: crazyyote

Re: How long could you last... - 05/16/19 10:15 PM

Is this a coyote forum? Help!! The only thing I know is I'm not at the top of the food chain and I want to learn more about hunting predators.
Posted by: robjacobs

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 02:12 AM

I nominate EMP3 for having the dumbest and most non-sensical post of the century. I haven't heard such crap since maybe when someone said a semi-auto pistol has only 2 moving parts. Good [beeep] the magazine alone has more than that. The spring decompressing, the follower rising along with a round being stripped into the chamber and all the other rounds being pushed up by the spring and follower. Let's not even start with the pistol itself.
Posted by: Plant.One

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 10:32 AM

Originally Posted By: EMP3
GC,

You ought to consider chilling. Losing composure is not a positive indicator of knowledge. Itís obvious that a lot of what you want to believe is not true. Youíve not reached knowledge. When you do, youíll be able to admit that much of what you believe is wrong.



spewing two page long rants about [beeep] isnt either.

as for the rest of your r post, i got bored about 3 paragraphs in and am reclaiming my time for that bit itself.

honestly.. i dont know what the forum would would do without guys like you clogging up things because they're all butthurt

Posted by: Softpoint

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: crazyyote
Is this a coyote forum? Help!!


It's a predator hunting forum, as in us hunting them.

Now we are being hunted because coyote season is over for many. scared
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 02:45 PM

No one is being hunted here. If it walks like a duck.........you know the rest.
Posted by: Coyotejunki

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 06:49 PM

I want to know who Kirk is, last name please.

I met Chuck Norris also, back in the late 79-80. But I was just a lowly student listening to a class/seminar he gave. Still was pretty cool. I always thought highly of the man.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 07:09 PM

Captain Kirk? Kirk Douglas? They both were pretty tough guys. I did a search on Heavy weight kick boxing champions, found no one named Kirk. Googled Red West, he was an actor/songwriter and a friend of Elvis but nothing about him being a body guard though. Think we're getting a snow job here.
Posted by: hm1996

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 07:40 PM




Planning to disassemble my 1911 this weekend and trying to figure out which little bitty parts I can omit when re-assembling.

Can someone please identify the two moving parts for me? None of the parts in above animation would hold still long enough for me to make positive ID. unsure unsure

Thanks,
hm
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 08:35 PM

I could be wrong but I think your gonna need all those parts.
Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 09:55 PM

Originally Posted By: hm1996
<iframe width="658" height="370" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EjQrhDKDWFk" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Planning to disassemble my 1911 this weekend and trying to figure out which little bitty parts I can omit when re-assembling.

Can someone please identify the two moving parts for me? None of the parts in above animation would hold still long enough for me to make positive ID. unsure unsure

Thanks,
hm


That is a good animation! It incorrectly labeled the barrel bushing as a barrel bearing but looks great otherwise. Yeah... though EMP3 said he cited the only two moving parts he still hasn't. And all of us waiting for edification. rolleyes
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 09:57 PM

I think he bailed on us.
Posted by: hm1996

Re: How long could you last... - 05/17/19 10:34 PM

Ya think, Bill? Dang, I was hopin' to lighten up the darn thing a bit. lol

That is a pretty decent animation, Gary, I noticed the misnomer on barrel bushing, too.

Regards,
hm
Posted by: Brad Phillips

Re: How long could you last... - 05/18/19 09:02 AM

Originally Posted By: pyscodog
I think he bailed on us.


Probably just change his name and haunt the place. Who the [beeep] has time for multiple user names?
Posted by: Winny Fan

Re: How long could you last... - 05/18/19 09:54 AM

To the planners of the "Predator Masters shindig". If you haven't scheduled a 600 yard shotgun competition, you better "gitt'er done". EMP3 "is a comin'" and [beeep] is sure to follow..........

I guess from his name, he's a Springfield fan? Maybe one thing about him is identified as being a real thing.

Does anyone have Larry's Vicker's phone number.......???

laugh

Posted by: Brad Phillips

Re: How long could you last... - 05/18/19 10:55 AM

I figured EMP stood for Electromagnetic Pulse.
Posted by: pyscodog

Re: How long could you last... - 05/18/19 01:03 PM

Well back to GC's original post. At my age, even though I'm in decent shape, although far from great, if I'm attacked, I'll probably get an azz whoopin. Unless my attacker is in worse shape than me. The best I can do is try to stay away from places that might offer a bad guy an opportunity to get at me.
Posted by: Bowhunt

Re: How long could you last... - 05/19/19 05:38 AM

Someone want to grab a dust pan and help me? I'm sweeping up all those names that were dropped. That Kirk........he's ever so dreamy wub
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: How long could you last... - 05/21/19 10:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Tnslim
Good grief, Woody's back.



^^^^^ he nailed it.
Posted by: DaisyCutter

Re: How long could you last... - 06/15/19 12:09 AM

I ran 2 miles today at 7:37 avg. Try it before you knock it. I can crack under a 7 minute mile if I only need to do one. That puts me in the 1 percentile, by age.

I'm almost 42 years old, detective sergeant, paper pusher. 6'1" tall, 210 lbs, including 10 lbs extra. Tased, thumped, choked, or always otherwise found a way to win.

Between cardio and mindset, I haven't lost yet. Can't afford to lose once.

Posted by: GC

Re: How long could you last... - 02/19/22 12:06 PM

BUMP - JUST FOR FUN. I ran across this in a search and reread it. I was sipping coffee and giggling my butt off so much the wife had to ask what was so funny. We certainly have had some real characters here over the years.