Super yoter issues

Posted by: varminter .223

Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 05:45 PM

Reticle will not adjust in any smaller increments that around 1.25" at 100 yards despite adjusting at 4x. Coordinates numerically adjust as they should but poi moves from one side of a small handwarmer folded in half to the other in one click at 4x.
My partners was .75" high and maybe a quarter right when we zeroed it in the cold the other night and after my issues I had him shoot it and it was just off the hand warmer low right. His is tracking like mine as well.
I'm very disappointed. Bering told me to tighten the LaRue mount until it was very hard to cam over. The rifles shoot great groups but won't track when zeroing and his for sure shifted. I'd say they will be going back to Bering.
My 2nd Trail xp50 2 lrf will be here Tuesday. The 1st one I received as a replacement for my first version was junk. It had a horrible image, dead pixel, lrf wouldn't work consistently and it had a poi shift. They deamed it irreparable. I'm not thrilled to say the least.
I think between my partner and I we have had 8 or 9 units and not a one has been right.
I gotta ask how often do you guys check your poi or do you zero and worry about other things lol.
Scratch that 9 or 10 units, I forgot about the xd38a it was solid.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 06:36 PM

Interesting observations. So you're saying you've only had one thermal scope that's worked right at all?

I'm very new to this so keep that in mind. I've been messing around with my new to me super hogster and finding that the target makes a big difference and I think during the day position of the sun and how it warms the target matters.

As an example today I set up 2 hot water bottles at about 160 yds. One had a label all the way around it and I laid it on its side with the bottom towards me. It appeared as the actual size it was and I center punched this one. The other was a clear peanut butter jar with no label, same distance and also with bottom pointed at me. It appeared in the scope to be about twice as wide as it actually was but I centered the dot on the image and missed 3 times to the left, which is the side the sun was shining on. When I held on the right edge of the image I hit it.

Moral of the story is that the target itself and position of the sun matters a lot it seems.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 06:39 PM

V3, I can only attest to what happened to me. It may not have anything to do with your issues. Kirsch gave me a lot of help and instructions, and they were very useful, but did not cure my problem. I would sight the scope in, and it would be off the next time I shot it which was about every day. I cleaned the barrel to make sure it wasn't the rifle. I checked the tightness of the LaRue mount several different ways. All of it was pretty much useless as far as correcting the problem.

Right when I was ready to send the SY back, I decided to clean the barrel again just to be sure. Now this barrel has never coppered at all, and it showed no signs of copper on either cleaning. As most AR's that are suppressed it gets nasty even with an adjustable gas block. Anyway this time, I focused on the chamber and carbon. when I put it back into operation it tracked perfectly, shot to the same POI over and over again and it didn't make any difference whether I was on native mag, or zoomed, or using the PIP. It has been over a month now and it has held dead nuts zero with absolutely no corrections needed. I have made shots this week at 218 and 227 yds. with no issues.

Just my experience. I can't say it will make any difference for you.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 07:04 PM

204 AR. I shot at both tin foil and hand warmers of varying sizes to test different theories and it doesn't seem to matter.

DU that seems wild that cleaning fixed your issues but I guess anything is possible. I've never experienced any shift like this with day optics though.
Still doesn't explain big poi movements with 4x adjustments.

The other thing is we have of these scopes that are doing the same thing. I assume out of same batch.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 09:06 PM

Well I got the mount 8 clicks tighter and backed it of 2 and got it cammed over. Not sure how easy it will come back off though.

Prior to tightening the mount I shot 2 rounds and they were basically 1 inch low and left of my last 4 shots this morning. I then tightened the mount and shot 2 more. They were most touching maybe
.5" right of the ones shot prior to making the mount adjustment. I will test it more tomorrow.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 09:34 PM

Great. Iíve had mine for a couple months or so but havenít sighted it in yet cause I donít start dog hunting till Jan 1. After everything I went through with the trails, Iím gonna find a new hobby if this yoter doesnít hold zero. Please keep us posted on how it performs

DU I know you know more about guns and shooting than I do but I have never had poi shift or that kind of inconsistency with day scope because the gun needed a little cleaning. Iíve had groups open up but not move all together to that extreme. Iím not doubting what youíre saying at all, Iím just thinking it was probably that scope and not your gun. Especially with varminter having very similar issues. Hope Iím wrong (and very well could be) for all our sakes.
Posted by: Heymartay

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 10:23 PM

I was 1-6 tonight with my Hogster 35 and the hit wasnít good. Back to the range tomorrow. Coyotes acted like I wasnít close.
Posted by: Heymartay

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 10:27 PM

2-3 last night and nothing was drt. Shooting 204 Winchesters think 32ís
Posted by: Catdog1

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 10:35 PM

I know this sounds crazy but try sighting in using a incense stick. It gives you a really really small aim point and gives of enough heat to be seen really well.

I have had similar experiences as you when using handwarmers. Too big and it causes the heat signature to balloon too much.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/03/21 11:28 PM

I'm just telling you my experience with this scope. Plus, I'm a stickler for accuracy. I use HVAC tape cut in 4 equal ribbons to make the crosshairs. My POI shifts were not monumental, but I don't like to hit on one side of the crosshairs one day and the other side the next day, or high one day and low the next. This rifle is pretty consistently a .5 to .75 shooter and sometimes better. The only other thing I did besides the second cleaning (which was thorough) was to back off a little on how tight I was trying to get the LaRue mount. I don't know that forcing it closed would or could have any effect on accuracy, but I just went to moderate pressure to make it cam over and lock.

Anyway I wish I could be more help to you guys. Kirsch can verify that I told him exactly the same thing when he was trying to help me with this problem in the first couple of weeks of having the scope. I love the SY and the Phenom. They both have such wonderfully clear and sharp images.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 01:46 AM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
Well I got the mount 8 clicks tighter and backed it of 2 and got it cammed over. Not sure how easy it will come back off though.

Prior to tightening the mount I shot 2 rounds and they were basically 1 inch low and left of my last 4 shots this morning. I then tightened the mount and shot 2 more. They were most touching maybe
.5" right of the ones shot prior to making the mount adjustment. I will test it more tomorrow.


I will be interested in if that makes a difference. I thought I had mine plenty tight but this is my first experience with a qd mount so I'm not sure how tight they should be, but you have me wondering now. I thought I had mine zeroed well but I get weird fliers that this rifle never used to throw, but usually just at the targets that appear larger than they are.

I shot it a lot today, and was satisfied but tonight made 2 quick sets and missed one and made a bad shot on another that I got, in fact my first called and killed thermal coyote. When I got home I shot it and I was a little higher than I thought I should be so brought it down 2 clicks and it's right on at 100. Now I wonder if the mounts moving dang it lol.
Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 07:18 AM

So many variables, thermals can be beyond frustrating. Hope these get ironed out. Kitsch will be helpful I'm sure.

I've got a new Hogster sitting on my bench my friend just got. He wants me to mount and zero it for him. I'll be watching it closely.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 08:55 AM

I will try to offer some suggestions. However, I just pulled an all nighter hunting and knocked down 17 coyotes with the SY. Itís too hard to type on my phone. Iíve got a couple hour drive to get home and I need to get a couple hours of sleep and then Iíll make some suggestions.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 09:01 AM

I'm all ears lol
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 11:18 AM

Shot two rounds this morning. It has now shifted 1.25" to 1.5" under the handwarmer.
To sum it up it started high right in handwarmer yesterday morning, low left on edge to just outside handwarmer yesterday evening and now slight right and low by close to 1.5". Two shot groups are always tight and sub moa just like with good day optics. This thing is starting to make pulsar stuff look good.

Over all test to test group center to center is 1.75" horizontal spread and 2.5" vertical spread. That means if I zero to never be lower than dead on at 100 I could potentially be as high as 4" or more at 150 and 175 and have about a 315 yards zero or I could be 6 inches low at 300 and dead on at 100....what a mess.
Tightening mount to holy crap thats tight level had no affect as far as I can tell at this point.
Posted by: Bowhntr6pt

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 12:22 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
Shot two rounds this morning. It has now shifted 1.25" to 1.5" under the handwarmer.
To sum it up it started high right in handwarmer yesterday morning, low left on edge to just outside handwarmer yesterday evening and now slight right and low by close to 1.5". Two shot groups are always tight and sub moa just like with good day optics. This thing is starting to make pulsar stuff look good.

Over all test to test group center to center is 1.75" horizontal spread and 2.5" vertical spread. That means if I zero to never be lower than dead on at 100 I could potentially be as high as 4" or more at 150 and 175 and have about a 315 yards zero or I could be 6 inches low at 300 and dead on at 100....what a mess.
Tightening mount to holy crap thats tight level had no affect as far as I can tell at this point.


I hate to see this... I know it's got to be frustrating as all get out.

I'm in the market for a second thermal and was looing hard at the SY.

EuroOptics had the Trijicon Hunter MK III's on sale a couple months ago for $6K and I had my agency purchase two units for our SWAT team (I'm the team Commander) and was going to snatch one up but they are now OOS. I missed out. My Hunter MK III has been absolutely perfect sine I got it.

Was very interested in giving Pulsar a second look with the Trail 2, but not if issues are present.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 12:58 PM

V3, one of the things I learned with the Pulsar Apex was to always sight in after the sun went down or in the dark. That scope never moved more than one click in the 3 years I shot it, but if I shot it with the sun up high in the sky it would shoot 3 inches high every time. At first I would adjust it so that it would be dead on at 100 and then when I would check it right before hunting it would be 3 inches low, and I would have to go back to my original settings. So I just quit messing with it during bright daylight hours and if I needed to verify my zero, I would wait until the sun fell below the horizon.

Although the SY didn't appear to have that consistent change when I was initially trying to zero it, I just decided it was best to zero under the low light conditions I hunt in. Anyway, mine is working great now as I said previously, and I hope you can get yours sorted out. If not, you can always send it in and have them check it.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 02:10 PM

Well, here goes a couple of thoughts and ideas. Some of these may apply or none of them may apply.

POI Issues:
The majority of POI issues I have encountered with the Hogsters, Super Hogsters, and Super Yoters is due to the thermal being mounted too far back. On a Hogster or Super Hogster with their Tactical QD mount I would recommend at least 3 slots in and that is even stretching it. With their compact design, people tend to scoot them way back (even on ARs). I just talked to my fur buyer who's SH is not holding zero. When I asked him what rail slot, he had it on the very last one. It is barely hanging on the gun. There isn't enough rail to hold consistent POI. Tiny little shifts cause a lot of movement downrange.

Now on to the SY. The LaRue mount is very nice on the SY. However, it has a brand new design that doesn't feature a standard rail post. Good or bad, this means it has to be even further in. I have mine 6 rail slots in. I believe in my review and since I have mentioned make sure the entire length of the rail is supported. This is one of many reasons why I have a riser extension on both my AR and my bolt.

I do have one gun that seems at times to wander slightly. I believe it is due to the rail. It is never very far off. What I found is on this gun, if I simply re-seat the QD mount before shooting, my zero is back. I can't explain it but I have mentioned it to others and a few people have found this to be true. This is showing something on the rail is again keeping the mount from being able to stay in the exact position. The LaRue is so good at keeping zero, on this gun I simply open, seat it, and close, and my zero is perfect again. I really can't blame the mount as it happened on my SH and the SY, so it must be an out of spec rail or something.

Other things already mentioned is the mount being too tight or too loose. It is amazing how many people I talk to that say their POI is changing and when I ask if they adjusted their tension to their rail, they didn't realize they could. I realize this is not the case here, but just stating in general.

Also, if a person makes cam tension adjustments, the POI most likely will shift. It grabs and holds to the rail differently. If moving it from gun to gun, I would write down how many adjustments clicks left or right you do from gun to gun. It won't be massively different, but every minor change on a QD mount has an impact. In a perfect world, find a cam adjustment that works well on all your guns and leave it. I am starting to believe that over-tightening is just as bad as under-tightening.

Missing Coyotes: I believe there are multiple reasons this can and does happen even if the POI isn't the issue with a thermal scope.

One of the biggest reason is "height above bore". Many people use a 1 or 2" above center zero at 100. They say things like I've been doing this with glass scopes for years. Put a 3" above bore setting into a ballistics calculator vs 1.5" and you will see quickly it puts the flight of the bullet too high through the majority of the main kill distances for coyotes. There is no reason to set yourself that high for the majority of your shots just to try to shoot the occasional 300-400 yard shot.

I used to be one of those that zeroed 1" high at 100 with my flat shooting 22-250 because it is what I've always done. I then would then compensate by holding low on coyotes. I did this for so many years that when I get in a rush, my brain still does this at times and I have a tendency to aim low on coyotes in the 100-150 yard range. I am trying to retrain my brain as I now either use a dead-on at 100 or at the most .5" high at 100.

On top of this you add many coyote hunters sit/stand elevated. The greater the degree of elevation also aids in shooting high. Lots of coyote hunters shooting over coyotes.

Then there is the opposite effect. Many hunters under-estimate their yardages. Especially with the Super Yoter at 3x base mag and PIP. They swear the coyote was 150 when in reality it was 300 and they shoot low. When you can see the coyote so clearly and at times at such great distances, they simply aren't patient enough.

Zeroing: I am a huge advocate in aim small, miss small. I don't use any objects that bloom. I also shoot off my tripod. I have seen too many guns (yes free floated ones) that shoot different off bags, sled, or a table than off tripod. Also, this should be obvious but always zero at the same distance.

The SY does allow zero incremental changes of .54", .27", 18" and .14". In general they seem to work. However, I have experienced some odd anomolies where an adjustment seemed to be more and sometimes move it a few and it doesn't seem to go. I have gone to only setting the adjustment on 1x. At .54" increments, the most a person could possibly be of is .27". The zero movements seem to work better when setting them at 1x. I use 2x zoom on my SY when testing my zero. This is the max zoom I ever shoot, so this is what I use to zero.

Varmninter 223, some of these things may apply or maybe none do. DoubleUp is a good example. He went to great lengths to make sure he had every other variable taken out of the equation and then bam, his POI shift went away. There are so many things that can impact accuracy including the changing temps. I don't mean shift due to the SY in changing temps, I am talking about gun powder, barrel harmonics, etc.

To answer your question Varminter, I do check my POI on a regular basis. Have I ever changed my values. yes, by maybe 1" here or there. However, my guns take a beating, and I shoot lots of coyotes so lots of rounds go through my guns. A good cleaning, and usually I am back to where I was. Write down your coordinates. Just as a test case, take off the Super Yoter, and mount it back to the same rail slot, and see if your zero is back to where it should be.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 02:42 PM

I never thought about it being too far back. Here's mine, there is about 1/4" of the longer mount clamp on the other side hanging in back of the rail. Too far back?

Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 02:57 PM

Loosened my Mount 3 clicks....from stupid tight.
Mount rail locator tang is 9 rail slots forward of rear.
I will try some small tin foil squares.
I never zero higher than .5" at 100 with an ar and my brain makes me hold high when shooting longer shots anyway. We shoot most coyotes at 175ish and of course that's where trajectory peaks due to the 2.85" over bore scope height.
I will forget about adjustments beyond 1x. However even at 1x it was makimg moves over 1" but
I will try again.
Thanks!
Posted by: Heymartay

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 03:04 PM

So a cigar or cigarette should work for use as a small aiming point. Have to go pick up some el cheapos.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 06:39 PM

Originally Posted By: 204 AR
I never thought about it being too far back. Here's mine, there is about 1/4" of the longer mount clamp on the other side hanging in back of the rail. Too far back?

Hard to tell by the picture. I usually go by rail slots left. This is also the standard mount. I actually have never used this mount on a gun.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 07:14 PM

I cut a piece of foil maybe the size of my pinky nail. Small enough I couldn't get both legs of a staple in it. I loosened the mount 3 or 4 click from where it was which was 2 clicks from as tight as it would go with the lever all the way forward or open.
I shot on 2x and it stacked both about .5" low and 1 " right.
I then gave it 1 click at 1x up and 1 left.
Shot 2 more and again it stacked both at the top edge of the foil but still .5" right.
I gave it 1 more click left at 1x and shot 2 more.
It stacked them but was now atleast 1.5" left of the foil.
My only option was to go back that click to my previous coordinate.
After that move it put one in the top right corner of the foil and one almost touching just to the right .
I also payed close attention to the inclinometer which seems like my pip box is tilted to the left when at 0.

I'm not on even .54 coordinates. However if I am on coordinates that it responded properly to I hope it will stay.
I'm on 2.03 and 2.25 and I am wondering if I would be better with both at 2.16 which is 4 clicks at 1x vs. some higher power clicks mixed in.
Posted by: Dark moon 63

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 07:54 PM

It sounds to me like someone needs to come up with a scope base that's at least twice as long and locks to the rail in 2 places.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/04/21 08:01 PM

Yeah thats frustrating. I moved mine forward one notch and shot a few shots, it's good at 100 at base mag and 2x so I'll check it again after the next hunt.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/05/21 12:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Dark moon 63
It sounds to me like someone needs to come up with a scope base that's at least twice as long and locks to the rail in 2 places.
There is a reason these are compact scopes. Most people don't want to add a really big and long base to such a light and compact scope. Their mounts and the LaRue work very well for almost everyone. In the cases where a user can't get it far enough back, an extended rail or riser can fix or Bering can put on a bolt action mount. They have 3 different lengths to push back the scope as much as 3". I personally am glad they don't have a bulky mount.

Varminter, hopefully you got it working for you. If not before sending it in, I know you have said this gun is a tack-driver for you. However, I would recommend mounting your day scope and shooting it in the exact same manner under different days/temps etc just to make sure something else isn't causing a shift. Lots of powders react differently to temp.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/05/21 09:31 PM

Shot one round this evening at a handwarmer folded in half. I tried to shrink the heat signature by stapling a strip of wet cardboard to each side of the handwarmer and the top. I had an area maybe a little bigger than a quarter exposed. The round hit dead center and at the top edge of the exposed area of the hand warmer. That is exactly where I was yesterday afternoon after loosening the mount a bit and rezeroing with 1x adjustments. I've also done all the shooting at 2x mag using the pip. It's been around 50 degrees when I shot the last 2 times. It's supposed to be 19 degrees Wednesday. I will shoot it then and probably tomorrow as well.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/05/21 10:19 PM

Sounds like it might be performing better. Keep us informed.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/06/21 09:26 PM

Poi was a tad high and 3ish inches left this morning. Groups were lousy as well but wind was howling right to left. I had to test it though. It was pretty calm this evening when I shot 2 more and they were still 1.5 left and now a little low but touching. After I went back inside I decided to check my coordinates and they were not at 2.03 and 2.25 where they previously were shooting great. Somehow they both moved up numerically 1 click. The horizontal moved to the 2.52 number that jumps poi left about 1.5". I decided to go back to 0 and move my coordinates to 2.16 and 2.16 which is four clicks at 1x. However I can't get elevation back to zero. It goes from .09 to -.04 and I've tried 2,3,&4x but it won't go back to zero. I did a factory reset and it still holds the coordinates. I went to G2 profile and have it on 2.16 and 2.16 but that doesn't fix my G1 profile.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/06/21 11:30 PM

So I went into my vertical coordinates and went up until the reticle jumped to the very bottom of the screen and I kept going up and it came back to true 0.
Set it at 2.16 and 2.16. shot 2 1.5" low and 1.5" left.
Moved 2 clicks at 1x up and right to 1.08 and 1.08. I shot 2 more that are now inline with handwarmer left and right but but probably 4" high.
I come 1 click down to 1.62 and it's still 3" high. Groups were not good. I notice when the scope tracks properly my bullets almost touch and when it does not my groups are 1.5" ish. My Trail 2 should be back Thursday or Friday. I'm gonna call Bering and get this thing sent in. It is not right.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/07/21 05:52 AM

Please keep us informed on what they say.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/12/21 05:33 PM

Bering is sending a return label to me via snail mail. Friday night I cleaned the rifle and it was still the same poi as the previous test after 1 fouling shot. Shot it a bit ago and poi is 1.5" right. Looseed the mount and reattached the scope, shot 1 and it stacked right with the first 2. Gonna be very interesting to see what Bering says. Right now this thing is no better than my Pulsar Trail XP 5O's.
Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/13/21 08:57 PM

Man I'm sorry to hear your troubles continue. I'm confident it'll serve you well in the long run and the Pulsar's won't even be comparable. Everytime I had to send a Pulsar in it ended my season and usually cost me $100 to ship. I bet you will be hammering coyotes with it in short order!
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/13/21 10:27 PM

New Pulsar came today. I had it zeroed in 3 shots. It seemed to track and group well. Shot the yoter again and it is now 1.5" low and an inch left vs an inch right like last night. I hope my return label gets here soon and they do find issues and turn it around quick.
Posted by: WestTX 25/06

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/13/21 10:29 PM

So I got the Super Yoter this year and have been killing a bunch with it, but the longer shots havenít been falling for me like they have in the past with my old PTS536.. Finally got some time to do some serious testing yesterday shooting at a hand warmer at 300 yards on a calm night. I wanted to see how it grouped, verify it shot same POI at all zoom levels, and verify it held POI when reattaching the scope. Here is what I learned about my particular scope.

The Good

1). The scope can shoot amazing groups at distance. 1.5Ē group at 300 yards with a thermal beyond what I could ask for. Thatís every bit as good as the gun shoots with daytime optics.

The Bad

1). The crosshairs visibly move when zooming from 3x to 4x. Sandbagged up you can watch them jump approximately 4Ē at 300 yards as you toggle back and forth. Thankfully it doesnít seem to do this jumping between the other zoom levels.

2). I shot a three shot group removing and reattaching the scope between shots. My scope is mounted far enough forward that the whole thing is contacting the rail. First shot was a couple inches high of the previous group. Second shot was ten inches right. Third shot was back ten inches left with the first shot. This leads me to believe the mount wants to return to zero, but it is possible to be wildly off and canít really be trusted.

3). Zeroing doesnít track true. First group was several inches right. By only adjusting windage, my next group was not only left but also higher.


My conclusions:

I think the scope will work great as long as I leave it mounted all season, donít shoot at high zoom, and waste a few more shells than should be needed sighting in. I like shooting and testing, but I think itís a little disappointing that you have to go to this amount of time and effort to find out which features of your scope you need to avoid. With that said, I would be generally happy with the scope if I could solve the qd mount issue. Does anyone know if there are other options?
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/13/21 10:41 PM

Sounds like plenty of people are having problems but haven't posted like they did with the Trail issues.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/14/21 12:18 AM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
Sounds like plenty of people are having problems but haven't posted like they did with the Trail issues.
The Hogsters, Super Hogsters, and Super Yoters are not only the best sellers at Night Goggles, but Bering Optics continues to be the lowest RMA and failure rates of any of the brands we carry. Along with all the thermals we sell, I monitor several other sites including the Bering Optics facebook group with thousands of Bering Optics users. There are not widespread issues that anyone is reporting. This does not mean you aren't experiencing an issue but overall, most users are extremely satisfied with their Super Yoters.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/14/21 01:03 AM

WestTx,

My comments are going to sound like I have tons of excuses or things to check. However, in the years I have been part of the thermal world including going through the Pulsar Trail issues, I have realized there are some scope issues and lots of other potential issues that can cause POI issues. I was one of the people who experienced the POI shift in the original Trails. I did not like it when I called Pulsar, and they went through a laundry list of reasons why my POI shift could be happening. I spent a ton of time and bullets proving the issue was not gun, ammo, rest, etc. However, there really are a lot of reasons this can happen.

One happened to me just today. I put my SY back on a gun I had previously used it on. I did some work on the gun, so I just wanted to see if my zero was still on. I was about .5" left. I adjusted it one click and took another shot, and holy crap I was 8" right just like you mentioned happened to you. First thought that goes through my mind is did I hold the adjustment button down too long and the value jumped too far. I checked my zero settings that I had written down and it hadn't. I went through and checked everything and realized my suppressor wasn't snug. Tightened it up, and my group shot exactly where it was supposed to be. It was just a little loose but little things like this can and do make a big difference. This has happened with my glass scope with the same result. In my situation, it wasn't a scope issue at all as it was a gun issue that caused that errant shot, but it would have been so easy to say it was the scope.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06
So 1). The scope can shoot amazing groups at distance. 1.5Ē group at 300 yards with a thermal beyond what I could ask for. Thatís every bit as good as the gun shoots with daytime optics.
This is amazing accuracy at that distance.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06
1). The crosshairs visibly move when zooming from 3x to 4x. Sandbagged up you can watch them jump approximately 4Ē at 300 yards as you toggle back and forth. Thankfully it doesnít seem to do this jumping between the other zoom levels.
Did you shoot at 4x to see if it still had the same POI? Many thermals have to jump between zoom levels depending on their X,Y coordinate adjustments.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06
I shot a three shot group removing and reattaching the scope between shots. My scope is mounted far enough forward that the whole thing is contacting the rail. First shot was a couple inches high of the previous group. Second shot was ten inches right. Third shot was back ten inches left with the first shot. This leads me to believe the mount wants to return to zero, but it is possible to be wildly off and canít really be trusted.
Like any QD mount, make sure that you are always mounting it the same. The general consensus on shooting forums is to push the scope and mount as far forward on the rail slot as possible before closing the locking lever. Many people (including myself) use LaRue clips to make 100% sure they are back on the correct rail slot. Also, make sure you get a good tension level on the rail lever to not be too tight or too loose. I have removed my Super Yoter maybe 100 times. Has it always been absolutely perfect, no I can't claim that but I don't think I have ever been off by more than 1" when doing what I am saying.

Having something slightly touch your barrel or sitting on bags a little differently can all cause things like this happen. Because it came back on the 3rd shot makes me believe something happened between shot 1 and 3. If all three were wildly different, I would be more worried. The fact it came back leads me to believe something impacted the gun on the 2nd shot. Because 2 of 3 shots were the same, I would recommend trying it a few more times and see if you can see a pattern as to something you may be doing slightly different when it shifts. I know ammo isn't cheap or easy to come by, but try it a few more times. If a LaRue mount won't return to zero, there aren't many more reputable options.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06
3). Zeroing doesnít track true. First group was several inches right. By only adjusting windage, my next group was not only left but also higher.
I am not saying there couldn't be an issue, but make sure your mount is tight. Write down your horizontal and vertical numbers to make sure an adjustment hasn't happened by accident that was unintentional as it happens to all of us. Also, guns shoot different as they heat up. If it sounds like I am making excuses there are so many reasons guns can change POI, it isn't always the scope, but it could be. I use 1x zoom to make my adjustments as .54" should get everyone within at least .27" of where they want to be and usually closer. When I hear of people's zero not tracking with adjustments, it seems like they are usually changing the values at 2x, 3x or 4x. I have seen more consistent results when changing the values at 1x. Should this be the case, no, but just trying to narrow down what might be occurring for you. This is the first time Bering has ever allowed a scope adjustment at anything but 1x.

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06
I like shooting and testing, but I think itís a little disappointing that you have to go to this amount of time and effort to find out which features of your scope you need to avoid. With that said, I would be generally happy with the scope if I could solve the qd mount issue. Does anyone know if there are other options?
I've already mentioned what I would recommend. I would make sure the handle is tight enough but not too tight. I would also make 100% sure you are following the exact same procedure every time you mount and don't change the pressure/tightness of the handle when doing this.

LaRue is known for their precision and honestly this mount is about as good as any I have personally ever tested including Bobro, ZroDelta, and more. However, if you truly do not like the LaRue, you could buy a Bobro mount and have Bering install it for you. They typically do not charge to put a new mount on. Bobro's self adjust as far as tension. I hate the way their handles snap a person's fingers if you are not careful but lots of people like Bobro mounts. I personally have had better luck with LaRue and ADM but that is me. Remember Bering is so committed to accuracy, they align every mount to their scopes using an optical bench, and then reset it to 0,0 so they are as close to centered as possible. They secure it and epoxy it to make sure they don't move.

I ran the same test multiple times when I first received the Super Yoter prototype this fall. My tests were only 100 yards, but after doing the same test, my best group of the day was when I removed and remounted the SY three shots in a row. I virtually shot the same hole three times in a row. That test convinced me then and still to this day, I have seen nothing from my guns that suggests the LaRue mount won't return to zero.

I also recommend people shoot off the tripod they plan to use when hunting for final zero because many guns shoot slightly different off a tripod than off bags (even if free-floated).


Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/14/21 06:07 AM

Good advice Kirsch. Funny you mentioned the snapping of the Bobro mounts. Just last night I seriously pinched my finger! I didn't cry but my allergies acted up lol

Overall I've had really good rtz with Bobro and like how it uses two attachment points and can set my particular scope further rearward.
Posted by: old cat

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/14/21 08:33 AM

Not a yoter fan boy, do not own one. My buddy does & I thought I would share his issue with you. He mounted it on his rifle, shot a 3 shot group at 100 yards 1" high dead center. Never made any adjustments. How about that issue? Just as it came out of the box.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/14/21 08:33 AM

I feel my issues are not mount related. I like the LaRue mount. My poi issues occur in similar temps and my G1 profile takes different coordinates to zero than G2.
I hope our issues are not the norm and Bering gets them lined out quickly because I really want to like these yoters.
My only complaint or suggestion is that the pip could be set to more mag with the main screen at 1x. If the unit is bumped up to 2x for the intial shot it takes too long to find the front button and get fov back. Without suppressors sometimes shooting at runners is the only way to get a second shot.
Posted by: WestTX 25/06

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/14/21 07:26 PM

Thanks Korey for taking so much time to respond. I donít want it to seem like Iím bashing the scope. Image is great, grouping is phenomenal, and I like the button and function layout. I think it will kill truckloads.

Iíll try my best to respond to your questions/comments.

Yes Sir, phenomenal accuracy. The gun shoots great and I hand load for it. Iíve never had a thermal that grouped as well as my daytime scopes. Super impressed with this.

Yes, the POI shifted exactly the same distance as I observed the crosshairs jumping when going to 4x. I almost never really shoot at coyotes at 4x (jackrabbits might be a different story). Not really a concern other than I canít use the smaller increments offered at 4x zoom to zero.

It was a cold night when I tested and I would go check the target after each shot to allow the barrel to stay cool.

Pretty sure I was consistent on the sandbags, but you never know.

I will take some time to shoot more taking off the scope in between shots to verify. Hopefully I prove myself wrong, but Iím thinking my failure to hit many dogs past 200 yards this season might be that Iíve been taking the scope off to replace with daytime optics for my kids to use the gun deer hunting in between coyote hunts and just trusting that it would hold zero. It shifted every time I re mounted it, granted two of them were close to each other, but it never stayed in the same place two re-mounts in a row. Easily fixed by just leaving the scope mounted.

I realize this isnít a concern for most users, but I hunt in a wide open low humidity environment and longer shots are important to me. Last year I was pretty automatic out to 300 yards with my FLIR and made many longer shots too, but I realize there is also a human variable to it. Entirely possible I just decided to forget how to shoot this year and am inventing excuses for my performance.

Also, Iíve been down the same pulsar trail xp50 rabbit hole as you (it is now serving as my scanner) and hate having to verify zero before every hunt.

If you are interested I can send you a picture of the target, I donít know how to post them here. Thanks again!
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/22/21 05:46 PM

I sighted my yoter in the other day at 100 yards. Everything went smooth. My cousin still has to sight in his thermion so if I get a chance,Iíll meet him at the range and shoot the yoter again to confirm no poi shift.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/22/21 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06
Yes, the POI shifted exactly the same distance as I observed the crosshairs jumping when going to 4x. I almost never really shoot at coyotes at 4x (jackrabbits might be a different story). Not really a concern other than I canít use the smaller increments offered at 4x zoom to zero.
You don't have to shoot at 4x to change the zero settings at 4x. However, it is .18" at 3x and .14" at 4x, not a huge difference. Honestly, I tested the 2-4x zero increments earlier on my prototype and things seemed to always work for me. However, I have helped numerous people with the Super Yoter and zeroing, and when I hear comments like, "I made a .14" adjustment and it jumped like 2"+, it always seems like they are using 2,3, or 4x zoom. Should it work, yes, but I can tell you for the majority of people, I tell them to go to 1x before going into the zero menu. For virtually every person who told me the zero wasn't tracking correctly on adjustments, when they went to 1x, everything is good. The most the scope could be off if using 1x (.54") adjustments is .27" and that is worst case scenario. I just use 1x on all my adjustments now. I actually set the scope to 2x when zeroing, but 1x to adjust.

As for remounting, the LaRue mount has been the best RTZ I have ever used including Bobro, and ZroDlta. Make sure you are pushing the mount as far forward as it will go before locking it down.

Let me know how it goes.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/23/21 01:56 PM

Bering finally got a label to me on Tuesday. Fed ex 2 day must really be three day so they will have it on Friday. I will keep those interested posted.
Posted by: WestTX 25/06

Re: Super yoter issues - 12/28/21 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Kirsch
Originally Posted By: WestTX 25/06
Yes, the POI shifted exactly the same distance as I observed the crosshairs jumping when going to 4x. I almost never really shoot at coyotes at 4x (jackrabbits might be a different story). Not really a concern other than I canít use the smaller increments offered at 4x zoom to zero.
You don't have to shoot at 4x to change the zero settings at 4x. However, it is .18" at 3x and .14" at 4x, not a huge difference. Honestly, I tested the 2-4x zero increments earlier on my prototype and things seemed to always work for me. However, I have helped numerous people with the Super Yoter and zeroing, and when I hear comments like, "I made a .14" adjustment and it jumped like 2"+, it always seems like they are using 2,3, or 4x zoom. Should it work, yes, but I can tell you for the majority of people, I tell them to go to 1x before going into the zero menu. For virtually every person who told me the zero wasn't tracking correctly on adjustments, when they went to 1x, everything is good. The most the scope could be off if using 1x (.54") adjustments is .27" and that is worst case scenario. I just use 1x on all my adjustments now. I actually set the scope to 2x when zeroing, but 1x to adjust.

As for remounting, the LaRue mount has been the best RTZ I have ever used including Bobro, and ZroDlta. Make sure you are pushing the mount as far forward as it will go before locking it down.

Let me know how it goes.


Thank you Sir. I took some time to test again a couple nights ago and my mount definitely doesnít hold zero, moving 2Ē-3Ē at 100 yards. Maybe I got a bad one, maybe my tension is wrong, or maybe my rail is off spec. Iím being very particular about pushing it forward before locking down. Also experienced the issue zeroing where elevation changed when I only adjusted windage.

All that said, I can live with all of that because of the grouping Iím seeing. Iím shooting tiny little ragged holes at 100 yards. Thatís something Iíve never had with any of my other thermals. To me, thatís far and away the most important thing. Iím just going to leave the scope constantly mounted on the same rifle and be happy with it. Asking for total perfection out of any thermal is probably asking too much. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/01/22 07:59 PM

Got my super yoter back last Monday. They changed our the objective lens.

I put it back on the rifle that evening and shot 2 rounds at 100 yards. They were approx 4.5 inches low and left. Gave it 8 base power clicks up and right. Next shot was low left corner of handwarmer. I then moved it 2 base power clicks right and one up. That should have been a 1.08" horizontal adjustment but the next shot was 3" right of the previous. I shot one more and it was about .75" left of the previous shot. Neither of those were any higher than the shot after my first adjustment despite the one click up. The only base power adjustment I had left was 1 click back left. This adjustment put me 3/8" or so high and right of dead center in the hand warm so I decided to leave it alone. I've shot it 3 time since then in mid 30 to mid 50 degree temps and it has been dead on so all is well at the moment. The course adjusti has me a bit concerned but if it holds the zero I guess it doesn't matter to much as long as it will adjust to center.
Posted by: flowj

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/01/22 08:08 PM

Glad to here that. I'm ordering my SY Monday morning just as soon as Carina gets back in the office.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/01/22 08:45 PM

Hopefully it holds now Varminter. I just talked to the guy I got my SH from about holding zero, and he's sent his SY in for shutting off after each shot. He tried different power cords as well as internal disposables and nothing worked as it should and it cost him several dogs.

He said he doesn't test enough on paper to know if it holds perfect zero or not, he only checks if he starts missing coyotes. If my SH seems to wander around more than can be explained it might go in also.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/01/22 09:19 PM

I had my days messed up.....I said I got it back last Monday but it was Wednesday. They received it the Friday before and I had it back in my hands 3 business days later. It took a while to get a return label but once they got it they turned it right around. As far as the label issues I think there was an email issue combined with a communication issue with the previous person I originally spoke with. I had my Trail 2 back and I wanted to test it so I was unusually patient lol.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/02/22 03:53 PM

My SH is going for a ride as soon as I can talk to Bering tomorrow and get a label. From my zero yesterday, new zero that is, today I shot one shot 2" low. I let it sit, came back out and put one 1" high, put up a different target and put one 2" right. lol this nonsense is curing my night hunting cravings fast.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/02/22 04:21 PM

204, this may not help you one bit, but anyway this is what I've found over the past 6 years of shooting thermals. I never, never try to sight my thermal in during bright sunshine days. I wait to shoot right after sundown, at night, or on a very cloudy day. Understand, I'm not saying that will make any difference for you, but I can only relate what I've found. My scopes would always shoot high with bright sunshine, usually about 3 inches high. If I adjusted for zero then the scope would shoot about 3 inches low after sundown, and I would have to re-adjust to the previous zero.

This happened several times, and so I just finally realized that whether it was the scope or the way I was holding the rifle during sunshine days that I was just wasting ammo. Now, I might try a shot or two just to be sure I was on paper during daylight but waiting until near dark for actual sight-in has made a difference for me.

If you have to send it in, hopefully they will find the issue and give you a quick turn-around.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/02/22 05:13 PM

That's interesting DU and I wondered if that type of thing doesn't happen. In this case though I'm afraid that isn't the case.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 10:00 AM

I shot my yoter yesterday in the mid 20 temps. It was a solid inch higher than it was zeroed. It was favoring the higher left side of the handwarmer center but yesterday it was over the handwarmer and inch or so above it's previous poi. When I get a chance I will shoot it warm then let it cool and shoot again. Probably will try one base power click down if it is still favoring high side or higher.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 12:00 PM

Made time to test it this morning. Phone said 19 degrees.
First two shots at small tin foil square were with the gun straight out of the house and they were an inch under the 1" foil square and about an inch right
Let the gun cool on the bench for 10 or so minutes and next 3 shot were basically low left hand corner of foil.
Decided to try a handwarmer which I always fold in half. Shot two shots and they were touching and bottom left corner of handwarmer.
Yesterday it was a half inch over the handwarmer.
Getting just over 2" of vertical and just under 2" of horizontal shift. I'm not sure it's temp related either.
Not good!
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 12:08 PM

Dang it. What now? At 100 yds?

I've been in contact with bering about mine and waiting for a call back with suggestions. I don't know what else I could possibly try.

Locals are saying these aren't precision optics which is obvious but I need a little better than that to have confidence in a shot.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 12:45 PM

If those who are having some type of POI issue with their Bering thermals (or any thermals) have repeated the exact same test with glass scopes and it does not happen, contacting your dealer and/or Bering is what I highly recommend.

When I experienced POI shifts with my Trail, I didnít appreciate pulsar questioning my gun, ammo, or my shooting skills. However, there are so many things that can impact accuracy and POI including ammo, rests, pressure, suppressor, carbon build up, and more. However, if all those things stay the same and only the scope is changed, this helps narrow it down. Once it is narrowed down to the scope, then all the other things many have mentioned comes into play. Just because a gun has always been sub-MOA, doesn't mean it is right now, so please repeat the same tests with a different optic. The other thing you may want to do is to try it on another gun. Not all rails are equal either, and it could be a rail issue.

I hate to mention this, but one other thing to consider is have someone else try to use your gun and repeat the same process. I just got off the phone with a custom gun manufacturer. He had a customer with the same type of issue. The gun manufacturer received the gun with the Bering Optics thermal and has experienced no POI shift whatsoever. Iím not saying this to belittle anyone to say it is the shooter, but that is one variable.

When you have repeated the test with a different optic, and potentially a different gun, then there isn't much else but to contact your dealer and the scope manufacturer.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 12:57 PM

Yes all my poi testing is done at 100 yards on the same solid bench in a lead sled solo.
I just got my unit back from bering frown
Two of test groups had bullets holes touching and quite different poi.

If woa had a barrel in stock I would put together an identical test rifle with day optics. It would be cheaper that all the ammo I burn testing these ever present issues.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 02:05 PM

I agree completely thorough testing is in order. I even put the old scope on mine yesterday, it was still in rings so was zeroed pretty close. I shot a decent group with it off the upper. I did not leave it and test day after day.

All my testing has been off the tripod, sitting. Same exact way I would be in the field. I'm pretty confident I have an issue but admit there might be something I overlooked. I did check mount tightness, it's as tight as possible without using a tool to cam over. I thought maybe the rail is thinner than standard but the mount cams over easily when off the uppper. The mount is entirely on the upper rail clamping surface.

As a sidebar, I also check my day gun occasionally. Yesterday off sticks I aimed at my 200 yd 4" steel and center punched it as I expected to. I would like to gain that confidence in a Thermal but I don't know if it's possible now.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 02:52 PM

204 that reminds me my day scope off of this rifle is still in rings and could be easily slapped back on. I keep forgetting this yoter has a qd mount. Wouldn't be hard to test but I know darn good and well it isn't gonna shift like that.
Posted by: flowj

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 03:57 PM

For my 2 cents if I was checking a scope for repeatability I would be totally bagged up front and rear on a proper and solid shooting bench with warm fingers and light to no wind. I realize POI can be different from bags to tripod but you need to know if the scope is shifting and the only way to find that out is to make sure the gun is dead nuts solid. One question I have to those that might know. How does a thermal scope deal with parallax?
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 06:44 PM

Same amount of parallax as a tv screen I would guess.
My test are done in such a manner that they are good for occasional five shot .5" center to center groups with AR's. Five under an inch is acceptable. Hard to have perfect test conditions with no wind on the night you are hunting in varying temps to test poi.
We aren't talking a little cant or different cheek pressure here.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/03/22 07:06 PM

I might have something going on with mine but I canít be sure yet. If I do it is a matter of an inch to half inch difference at 100 yards at this point. . I was reluctant to even say anything cause I truly am not sure yet because Iím not the best shot and havenít gone nuts testing it. There are a couple things that have not made sense to me when shooting it without adjusting anything on the scope or taking it off the rifle since first sight in. Iíve been taking some pictures of my targets so in time I should be able to say if itís actually moving. One thing I want to try is what DU had suggested and only sight it in when sun is down. I use half a hand warmer to sight in and I understand that it may bloom. Not sure if sun has anything to do with that but I think I am gonna try it. I really donít know but there have been differences in poi since I first sighted it in. This is without me eliminating a lot of variables so Iím not swearing to anything yet.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/04/22 05:24 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
So when it nukes it can move a pixel or two.....what if it moves to a pixel or set of pixels that it is on when the scope makes big moves when adjusting????
I moved this to your thread as 204 requested his thread not be hijacked by other questions.

I am not sure what you by what if it moves to a pixel or set of pixels it is when the scope makes big moves, please clarify.

If you are referring to trying to move the SY a small adjustment (under digital zoom) and it makes a larger move, I have mentioned previously that I have heard nothing official from Bering. I have had a few people report they believe it might be happening. For those people, when I suggest they try it at 1x (.54"), it seems they have no more issues. If this is a problem with the SY, Bering will either need to address or go back to what they did with the SH, and only allow 1x adjustments.

As far as the NUC causing potential shifts or minor changes to zero, I am not a thermal engineer. From everything I have read as well as been told by thermal company representatives, they have to. We can go back to what many of us learned who went through the Pulsar Trail issues, the software was not correctly adjusting to temp changes. This is part of what happens in the NUC process.

When I test thermals, one of the two things I test in regards to NUC are:
1) Changes to POI on NUC
2) Temperature POI Impact

Changes to POI on NUC: I shoot a group, and NUC the scope, and shoot another group, I then NUC the scope two more times in a row, and shoot a group. I would consider anything under 1" to be very acceptable in this test. I have seen thermals shift way more than this. The scope is doing a lot of things when you NUC, so you want to make sure when a scope NUCs, your accuracy isn't impacted in a major way.

Temperature POI Impact: When I test a thermal for temperature changes, I shoot a group, and then wrap a flexible icepack around the scope for 15 minutes and shoot another group. This is a very difficult test on a thermal. Many thermal manufacturers would say this isn't a fair test. However, I want to be as sure as possible temp won't cause changes.

Think about what we do as coyote hunters. Many of us have the guns in a heated truck, and then go out in subzero temps. We expect the thermals to adjust properly with these huge temperature swings. This is why I run this test. I believe Pulsar still states in their manuals they recommend zeroing the gun in the same temp as you plan to hunt. They also warn to keep it in that temp for a period of time before zeroing or hunting. This would be tough to do for most coyote hunters. I bring this up to illustrate how important temp is to a thermal scope and how critical it is the NUC process adjusts with temperature changes to keep your accuracy as precise as possible.

With each of these tests, if the scope is functioning as I expect, there should be minimal changes to groups. If something moves less than an 1" with any of these tests, I consider that excellent.

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I've also heard thermions aren't having a shift issue.
It's hard to wade through all the internet bs
Not sure if you are implying, I am providing internet BS or not. I would hope people on this forum would know by now that I tell it like it is (good and bad) to the best of my ability. I have asked Pulsar to provide a Thermion for me to test and then I could at least state if that unit passed my NUC testing. I can tell you the SY passed my test. Is it possible there are other SYs that wouldn't pass my test, absolutely as there could be Trijicons, Nvisions, Pulsars, etc. Just because a person is having an issue with a thermal, does not mean everyone will or that they are not experiencing it because they haven't tested it enough.

For people who are having issues with their thermals, contact the dealer you bought it from. See if they have any suggestions as the many suggestions, I have tried to provide on this forum. If there is an issue that can't be easily remedied, then the manufacturer may need to get involved. If you don't have a dealer, then go directly to the manufacturer.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/04/22 05:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Kirsch
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
So when it nukes it can move a pixel or two.....what if it moves to a pixel or set of pixels that it is on when the scope makes big moves when adjusting????
I moved this to your thread as 204 requested his thread not be hijacked by other questions.

I am not sure what you by what if it moves to a pixel or set of pixels it is when the scope makes big moves, please clarify.

If you are referring to trying to move the SY a small adjustment (under digital zoom) and it makes a larger move, I have mentioned previously that I have heard nothing official from Bering. I have had a few people report they believe it might be happening. For those people, when I suggest they try it at 1x (.54"), it seems they have no more issues. If this is a problem with the SY, Bering will either need to address or go back to what they did with the SH, and only allow 1x adjustments.

As far as the NUC causing potential shifts or minor changes to zero, I am not a thermal engineer. From everything I have read as well as been told by thermal company representatives, they have to. We can go back to what many of us learned who went through the Pulsar Trail issues, the software was not correctly adjusting to temp changes. This is part of what happens in the NUC process.

When I test thermals, one of the two things I test in regards to NUC are:
1) Changes to POI on NUC
2) Temperature POI Impact

Changes to POI on NUC: I shoot a group, and NUC the scope, and shoot another group, I then NUC the scope two more times in a row, and shoot a group. I would consider anything under 1" to be very acceptable in this test. I have seen thermals shift way more than this. The scope is doing a lot of things when you NUC, so you want to make sure when a scope NUCs, your accuracy isn't impacted in a major way.

Temperature POI Impact: When I test a thermal for temperature changes, I shoot a group, and then wrap a flexible icepack around the scope for 15 minutes and shoot another group. This is a very difficult test on a thermal. Many thermal manufacturers would say this isn't a fair test. However, I want to be as sure as possible temp won't cause changes.

Think about what we do as coyote hunters. Many of us have the guns in a heated truck, and then go out in subzero temps. We expect the thermals to adjust properly with these huge temperature swings. This is why I run this test. I believe Pulsar still states in their manuals they recommend zeroing the gun in the same temp as you plan to hunt. They also warn to keep it in that temp for a period of time before zeroing or hunting. This would be tough to do for most coyote hunters. I bring this up to illustrate how important temp is to a thermal scope and how critical it is the NUC process adjusts with temperature changes to keep your accuracy as precise as possible.

With each of these tests, if the scope is functioning as I expect, there should be minimal changes to groups. If something moves less than an 1" with any of these tests, I consider that excellent.

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I've also heard thermions aren't having a shift issue.
It's hard to wade through all the internet bs
Not sure if you are implying, I am providing internet BS or not. I would hope people on this forum would know by now that I tell it like it is (good and bad) to the best of my ability. I have asked Pulsar to provide a Thermion for me to test and then I could at least state if that unit passed my NUC testing. I can tell you the SY passed my test. Is it possible there are other SYs that wouldn't pass my test, absolutely as there could be Trijicons, Nvisions, Pulsars, etc. Just because a person is having an issue with a thermal, does not mean everyone will or that they are not experiencing it because they haven't tested it enough.

For people who are having issues with their thermals, contact the dealer you bought it from. See if they have any suggestions as the many suggestions, I have tried to provide on this forum. If there is an issue that can't be easily remedied, then the manufacturer may need to get involved. If you don't have a dealer, then go directly to the manufacturer.


Many parts of this need to be in a sticky.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/04/22 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Kirsch
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
So when it nukes it can move a pixel or two.....what if it moves to a pixel or set of pixels that it is on when the scope makes big moves when adjusting????
I moved this to your thread as 204 requested his thread not be hijacked by other questions.

I am not sure what you by what if it moves to a pixel or set of pixels it is when the scope makes big moves, please clarify.

If you are referring to trying to move the SY a small adjustment (under digital zoom) and it makes a larger move, I have mentioned previously that I have heard nothing official from Bering. I have had a few people report they believe it might be happening. For those people, when I suggest they try it at 1x (.54"), it seems they have no more issues. If this is a problem with the SY, Bering will either need to address or go back to what they did with the SH, and only allow 1x adjustments.

As far as the NUC causing potential shifts or minor changes to zero, I am not a thermal engineer. From everything I have read as well as been told by thermal company representatives, they have to. We can go back to what many of us learned who went through the Pulsar Trail issues, the software was not correctly adjusting to temp changes. This is part of what happens in the NUC process.

When I test thermals, one of the two things I test in regards to NUC are:
1) Changes to POI on NUC
2) Temperature POI Impact

Changes to POI on NUC: I shoot a group, and NUC the scope, and shoot another group, I then NUC the scope two more times in a row, and shoot a group. I would consider anything under 1" to be very acceptable in this test. I have seen thermals shift way more than this. The scope is doing a lot of things when you NUC, so you want to make sure when a scope NUCs, your accuracy isn't impacted in a major way.

Temperature POI Impact: When I test a thermal for temperature changes, I shoot a group, and then wrap a flexible icepack around the scope for 15 minutes and shoot another group. This is a very difficult test on a thermal. Many thermal manufacturers would say this isn't a fair test. However, I want to be as sure as possible temp won't cause changes.

Think about what we do as coyote hunters. Many of us have the guns in a heated truck, and then go out in subzero temps. We expect the thermals to adjust properly with these huge temperature swings. This is why I run this test. I believe Pulsar still states in their manuals they recommend zeroing the gun in the same temp as you plan to hunt. They also warn to keep it in that temp for a period of time before zeroing or hunting. This would be tough to do for most coyote hunters. I bring this up to illustrate how important temp is to a thermal scope and how critical it is the NUC process adjusts with temperature changes to keep your accuracy as precise as possible.

With each of these tests, if the scope is functioning as I expect, there should be minimal changes to groups. If something moves less than an 1" with any of these tests, I consider that excellent.

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I've also heard thermions aren't having a shift issue.
It's hard to wade through all the internet bs
Not sure if you are implying, I am providing internet BS or not. I would hope people on this forum would know by now that I tell it like it is (good and bad) to the best of my ability. I have asked Pulsar to provide a Thermion for me to test and then I could at least state if that unit passed my NUC testing. I can tell you the SY passed my test. Is it possible there are other SYs that wouldn't pass my test, absolutely as there could be Trijicons, Nvisions, Pulsars, etc. Just because a person is having an issue with a thermal, does not mean everyone will or that they are not experiencing it because they haven't tested it enough.

For people who are having issues with their thermals, contact the dealer you bought it from. See if they have any suggestions as the many suggestions, I have tried to provide on this forum. If there is an issue that can't be easily remedied, then the manufacturer may need to get involved. If you don't have a dealer, then go directly to the manufacturer.

First off I would like to clarify by internet BS I am referring information from Joe Blow coyote hunter in general. Ten people could say their Thermions don't shift poi but the might not even test it or they might not want to admit it etc. I'm not referring to you as I feel you provide a great service to everyone here.

As far as shifting to a set of pixels that the poi makes big jumps on.....Im referring to the fact that my Yoter will adjust and track as it should on some coordinates and some it will move 1.5" ish per base power click.
I wish I could post pics. I sent detailed group pics label with the coordinates they were shot at.

When I zeroed after getting the unit back from Bering I only used base power adjustments. My group was just left of the handwarmer and it needed to move right an inch. I gave it two clicks which would be a 1.08 negative adjustment. My poi was now 2.5 to 3 inches more right than the previous group. My only base power option was a .54" back left which put me maybe 3/8" high and right of the handwarmer center. Both of those adjustments were over double what the should have been. If a nuc cause the reticle to shift pixels what happen when they move to the pixels that created the big movements with 1 base power click?

This zero stayed good for a couple test sessions both at handwarmes and small foil squares.
Then the next time it was an inch higher.
The next time an inch lower than the original zero that held for a while which was close to 2" under the high group.

Straight out of the house it was even lower and an inch more right.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/04/22 09:26 PM

I sure hope Bering makes it right
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/04/22 09:29 PM

I have commented on various things that can cause minor changes in POI. I mentioned NUCing and we seem to be diving down into this topic. Although I work with many thermal brands and manufacturers, I don't have the details on how different manufacturer's NUC algorithms work, and I'm assuming there would be some NDA violation if somehow, I did have this information and disclosed it.

I was in your position and gave the scope manufacturer one chance to fix it. When my replacement still had issues, I chose to move brands and my problems went away. Some of my tests included trying it on a different gun, as well as testing with a glass scope, and lastly, I had a very talented shooter use my equipment to make sure it wasn't me. This is what I did to know 100% the problem was the scope or scope mount. On various forums as well as to Night Goggles customers, this is some of the same guidance I give to anyone having POI issues with any scope and any brand. Many times, people find out the problem wasn't the scope but sometimes it is.

A number of us on this forum have tried to help by offering suggestions. If you have tested the scope and are 100% certain the problem is the scope or scope mounts, it seems you are at a point similar to your Pulsars in the past. You will need to send it back to Bering again or contact the dealer you bought it from and look for either a refund or a move towards a different brand of scope. If you purchased it from Night Goggles, please PM me and we will figure out next steps.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/04/22 10:00 PM

After returning 6 or so thermal scopes to manufacturers and having then verify that an issue did exist on top of the expense of hundreds upon hundreds of rounds of ammo, and the countless number of handwarmer and hours spent testing a guy kinda starts to wonder if a solution exists. Not to mention a handful of digital nv units that have failed and all of the issues with thermal poi shift the people I hunt with have had.
Honestly now that I think about I'm not sure of anyone that has a solid dependable unit except for 1 guy with a Trijicon.
I just want to know what I have got to do or spend to have a dependable unit that will kill coyotes out to 300 yards if I do my part. From what I seem to read here I thought the yoter would do that. Mine will not. I guess I need to send it back yet again.

I really wish In knew how to post pics it sure would make describing issues easier.

When you call bering you call Texas you send the scope to California for repairs and sounded to me like when they have an issue they put a new objective lens in it and send it back. Noone I have spoken with a Bering seems to know much about the scope details or have an answer and they have not returned my call with an answer like they said they would.
I feel like baseball sized poi is not acceptable for coyote hunting.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/04/22 10:24 PM

Pics are easy. Set up an imgur.com account, plug your phone in and upload images. Click the image on imgur and it will bring up some options. click bbcode then paste in your post here.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/05/22 12:01 PM

Posting up this pic for V223, he'll be along to narrate.

Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/05/22 12:19 PM

Okay 204 posted my pic. Thanks!

Somewhere I have a text with the actual coordinates these 2 shot groups were shot at but I can't find it

The red group was shot 1st.
I gave the scope 1 base power click up and left and shot the purple.
Gave it one more click left and shot the green.
Came back to the right to the coordinates the purple was shot at and shot the yellow.
It did this before sending it in and still does it on certain adjustments.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/05/22 12:48 PM

Adjustment one (purple), and three (yellow) look about perfect. What caused the green, we would all guessing? I slight pull, the breeze, or it could be the scope. The yellow looks pretty dang good to me and should kill coyotes all day long. V233, you may be doing this, but I recommend a person write down the coordinates on every adjustment. It is very easy to move it two or three adjustments by accident. If a person holds down the button too long, it actually jumps 10 pixels at a time. This easy very easy to do, and another reason to write down the settings.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/05/22 12:59 PM

The group moved because the reticle moved that much with a base power click of .54
What happens in a nuc when it shift to these pixels. Does poi shift that much because it's about the shift I'm seeing.
Pulling shots that still group under .5" lol no.
I'm not even sure how it would be possible to pull a shot off of a rest that bad

The 2 middle groups would be great if it would have stayed.
It actually switched coordinates on me without me adjusting.

I went to G2 and resighted in. Once again zero does not hold and tracks funky.

I'm getting. 3" shift area if you include out of house temp.
2" if you only include outside temps.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/05/22 01:35 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
The 2 middle groups would be great if it would have stayed. It actually switched coordinates on me without me adjusting.
I have one follow up question. By the statement above are saying the horizontal and vertical values saved in the scope changed without you doing anything, or are you saying the POI shifted without you making any changes? This is a big difference.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/05/22 01:45 PM

G1 profile tracked odd and changed coordinates once. I put the coordinates back and zero was back on.
I switched to g2 profile per Bering's advice and the coordinates have not changed but it still tracks outta whack and could be an inch or more under handwarmer or an inch or so over creating a 3 " verticle variance. Only time it was low enough to open spread to 3" was only out of house maybe a minute or 2. I believe I had the scope on sleep mode for a few minute before taking out of house.
After that I let the gun out in cool temps and it shift to the 10'clock position pushing 2" from the out of house temp group..
Next day back an inch over the handwarmer.
One day over the handwarmer and next time under for 2 to 3" verticals spread.

I sent 204 a couple pics he will post when he gets a chance. They pretty much tell the story.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/05/22 02:22 PM

Varminter it looks to me like you have a very capable rifle and from what I've read on this you are doing everything right and are a competent marksman so no need for excuses from people on the scope shifting and the click values not being correct.

I've had my Super Yoter longer than most anyone here and I would guess has been used more as well since I'm retired. I'm EXTREMELY cautious about handling and transporting my rifles and my Yoter DID shift vertical about an inch and a half above my original zero on one zero profile for my Sierra load. I noticed it by missing/crippling coyotes so i took it to the range and it was off. My Nosler profile was a click off which is acceptable IMO.

One thing that is for sure on my Yoter is the click values are NOT TRUE. Its supposed to be .54 but mine definitely moves more. I honestly am not to torn up about it as long as it's consistent and I can get zeroed.

I don't have the time or the extra bullets/brass/powder to thoroughly test these thermals and as long as I am "minute of coyote" I'll spend my ammo and time on fur.

Maybe this spring if components ease up I'll pull mine off my hunting rifle and slap it on one of my PRS rifles, I have several that are 1/4 MOA that will let me know extremely quick what the thermal does.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 01:48 AM



Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 05:21 AM

Sure looks like itís moving to me. Being 2 to 3 inches off at 100 is pretty significant. Especially at farther ranges. 2 to 3 at 100 is 4 to 6 at 200. In my opinion thatís not acceptable. Iím guessing you are going to be having another conversation with Bering. Iím interested to see how they handle this.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 09:30 AM

Thanks again 204.
Two shots at top left corner of the handwarmer are from my Trail 2 and my .243 that I shot before shooting the SY. All other shots and comments are SY.

My original 0 (no pic posted) was pretty much dead center everso slightly favoring the 2 o'clock posity in the hand warmer and was done at base power and it held for a rest session or two.

Next test group a few day later was .75" ish over the handwarmer basically an inch higher than original 0.

Last weekend I turned the unit on for a while in the house for a bit then went straight to the bench and spent a minute or two fucusing and adjusimg the settings then shot the low right pair in the top pic.

It was cold out and I let it sit for a out 15 minutes I think on sleep mode and then shot the one at the very lower left corner and the one under

Given the spread I shot one more and that's the one just in the foil.

Yesterday morning I shot the 4 above the hand warmer.
Left pair were at 2x with pip and the 2 just to the left of those was at 4x on main screen.

I noticed the main screen retical appeared to about an inch low and right of the pip retinal at 2x on the first 2 shots. They appeared to be lined up at 4x.

I see my pic included one of my test groups before my original 0 shifted. You can see 2 shots in that little piece of foil almost cut off in that one pic. That group is actually .5" right of my original 0 group but it was good enough I called it good.

I've not adjusted since my original 0 which was a .5" center to 3 shot group.

Issues are basically all vertical.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 10:07 AM

V223, I'm confused now. Are you showing us pictures of the SY or the Trail 2?
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 12:53 PM

Originally Posted By: DoubleUp
V223, I'm confused now. Are you showing us pictures of the SY or the Trail 2?


Pics are of SY groups. I shot at the handwarmer with my Pulsar first though.Those are the 2 on the top edge favoring the left side. All other groups are SY.

I should add shots at handwarmer were is a 15 to 20 mph right to left crosswind.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 02:06 PM

The huge tracking jumps with a single 1x click that return when the coordinates are switched back indicate a non mechanical software or screen type issue which I know absolutely nothing about lol.
Posted by: JTPinTX

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 02:57 PM

varminter 223

I don't have a Super Yoter, so mostly I just read this thread out of curiosity. I do have a Hogster 35R with the Bobro mount. I have not experienced any issues with it holding zero. It has been very reliable.

Now as to why I replied to this thread. It was asked about a Thermion holding zero. At least for me, with my one unit, I can speak to that.

2 years ago I had saved up and bought a Trail XQ50 LRF. Pretty much right from the beginning I had shifting POI issues. Very significant POI shifts. I do lots of precision rifle shooting and a rock solid zero is important for me. I did lots of testing using a very accurate, repeatable rifle and documented my issues thoroughly. My dealer backed me up on it and I got a full refund from Pulsar. After reading about all the Trail POI shifting issues I just was not ready to go back down that road. The Trail 2's were not out yet and not expected for 6 months or better.

To replace the Trail I got a Thermion XQ50 with the dual lever American Defense QD mount. Over the last 18 months I have tested that unit hard. On the gun, off the gun, hot, cold, swapped around on different rifles using different zeroing profiles, you name it. There may have been a few minor shifts here or there that could easily be attributed to poor shooter form, a freshly cleaned rifle, or some other type of issue that can happen with any optic (thermal or daylight). But by and large it has stayed zeroed exactly where I put it and I have not seen anything that has made me question the optic itself.

After my initial experience with the Trail shifting zero it took quite a bit for me to trust this Thermion fully. But I do now and never give it a thought any more. I have killed over 150 pigs and coyotes with it in the last 18 months or so. Ranges from 26 yards to well over 300. It has been solid for me, I trust it.

That doesn't mean someone else somewhere may not be having issues with one. I can only speak for me.
Posted by: bobschauber

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 03:55 PM

Varminter. Are the problems occurring when you zoom in or is it just when you turn on the scope and shoot through the normal zoom? Also do you notice any difference when you shoot through the normal zoom vs when you shoot through the Picture in Picture? I own two SY and am curious.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 04:38 PM

I shoot mostly though pip but last time I tested on main screen at 4x and it was dead on with pip at 2x.
Posted by: G Anderson

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 05:15 PM

Originally Posted By: JTPinTX
varminter 223

I don't have a Super Yoter, so mostly I just read this thread out of curiosity. I do have a Hogster 35R with the Bobro mount. I have not experienced any issues with it holding zero. It has been very reliable.

Now as to why I replied to this thread. It was asked about a Thermion holding zero. At least for me, with my one unit, I can speak to that.

2 years ago I had saved up and bought a Trail XQ50 LRF. Pretty much right from the beginning I had shifting POI issues. Very significant POI shifts. I do lots of precision rifle shooting and a rock solid zero is important for me. I did lots of testing using a very accurate, repeatable rifle and documented my issues thoroughly. My dealer backed me up on it and I got a full refund from Pulsar. After reading about all the Trail POI shifting issues I just was not ready to go back down that road. The Trail 2's were not out yet and not expected for 6 months or better.

To replace the Trail I got a Thermion XQ50 with the dual lever American Defense QD mount. Over the last 18 months I have tested that unit hard. On the gun, off the gun, hot, cold, swapped around on different rifles using different zeroing profiles, you name it. There may have been a few minor shifts here or there that could easily be attributed to poor shooter form, a freshly cleaned rifle, or some other type of issue that can happen with any optic (thermal or daylight). But by and large it has stayed zeroed exactly where I put it and I have not seen anything that has made me question the optic itself.

After my initial experience with the Trail shifting zero it took quite a bit for me to trust this Thermion fully. But I do now and never give it a thought any more. I have killed over 150 pigs and coyotes with it in the last 18 months or so. Ranges from 26 yards to well over 300. It has been solid for me, I trust it.

That doesn't mean someone else somewhere may not be having issues with one. I can only speak for me.


Your experience with the thermion has been exactly what I have experienced. Set it and forget it. I ran the Thermion XP50 for 2 seasons and never once had to make an adjustment...it didn't matter whether it was hot, cold, daytime, night time, summer or winter...when I would just check it to see...it was always only a one shot check...dead on where it was set from the beginning...and when I say dead on, it is exactly dead on...not this 1/2", 3/4" or more off stuff...dead on! I upgraded to a Thermion 2 XP50 this year and it has been the same...I have not had to change from my original settings that were done in September and I have checked it twice so far and it is dead on...again...not just close enough...I mean dead on! In fact I just checked it today before posting this and it is currently 12* with a 14mph wind that puts it close to 0* windchill and it's exactly dead on.
The other convenience of the Thermion is the fact that it will mount on a bolt rifle or AR with no extra extended rails needed and you really don't need any special kind of mount. I just use a set of 30mm scope rings and that's it. The videos are very good and sharp and the internal audio is good and clear. The Thermion 2 XP50 has a slightly clearer image over the straight Thermion XP50, but a lot of people may not notice it. As for batteries being an issue, I have never run out of battery running it for 6-8 hours and using the sleep mode a lot when on stand...I honestly think I could get 10 hours of run time doing it this way. I am using the APS3 battery and carry the APS2 as backup, but have never had to change batteries.
So I guess I am a Thermion fan and this is not just internet BS...my hunting buddy will back this up and he too is running a Thermion XP50 with the same experiences. For the record, I started out with a Trail XQ38 and ran it for 3 years and never experienced any POI shifting with it.
I wouldn't mind trying a Super Yoter at some time but for now things are working.

Gene
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 05:34 PM

My hunting partner runs a Thermion XP50 and has been for a couple of years. I don't believe he has ever had to make any adjustments to the zero. He had two Trails prior to that and while neither of them were subject to zero shifts, the picture was pretty bad on the second one and worse on the first. Sightmark did him a good deal on replacing those with the Thermion XP50 and also added discount for his military service.
Posted by: Dark moon 63

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 07:32 PM

Ditto on the thermion. 3rd winter for mine . I do check it in the fall and it hits where it should. I shoot at thermal tape and get 1 moa full screen and 1/2 inch using the pip.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/06/22 08:15 PM

Sad part is I dropped a pile of money on this yoter to escape the Trail shift issue. Now I have a scope that without a doubt shifts be it the mount or the scope itself. I'm gonna contact Bering. I payed for a properly working unit and that's what I want. I'm not gonna play the ship it back and forth game. They need to test it and if they can't imo they should send me a new unit. I think I have plenty of documentation of issues both shift and poor tracking. Im not gonna just go away.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/07/22 02:47 PM

Spoke with Bering today and after a short conversation on the issue they said they would get a label out so I can return it and they will just exchange it for a new one. If the replacement does the same thing then I guess something else is up or that's just the way they are.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/07/22 02:51 PM

Glad they took care of you. Hope the new one works out better.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/07/22 02:54 PM

I hope thereís no problem with next one. Glad they are trying to rectify things. Did they make any mention of what they thought the problem may be?
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/07/22 03:05 PM

No I never tried to dive into what could be wrong as I'm sure the individual I spoke with wouldn't know anyway. It will be interesting to see how the new one pans out. I hate to be the guy that blames everyone or thing but himself but I'm at a point where I didn't know what else to try.
I've had rifles change poi a small amount in between shooting sessions but nothing like this. This was full-blown Trail style shift.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/07/22 03:51 PM

Yea man. Been down that road with the trails. Bought this yoter with full confidence that I wouldnít be dealing with something like that again. So far mine seems ok. There were some things that concerned me while shooting it but nothing drastic at this point. Havenít really messed with it enough to know if was me or the scope. Believe me, I hope it was me. Good luck and keep us posted how this plays out.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/21/22 08:38 AM

Got my replacement yoter in yesterday. I mounted it on the same 22 Nosler in the same rail slot with the same mount tightness. Shot it at 50 yards off of the bench and in 3 base power adjustments I had it about 1" low shooting at a 1" piece of foil which showed up really well as cold in the dark against cardboard with no bloom. I moved back to my 100 yard bench and shot 2. One was absolute dead center and the other about .5" right of the first. The unit seemed to track as it should. My buddy even broke it in last night by killing a big make coyote with it. I will see how poi holds over the next couple days.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/21/22 10:24 AM

Let the gun sit on sleep mode on my 11 degree porch for a while this morning then shot one at base power and one at 2x at the same 1" piece of foil off of the same bench and rest. They were probably less that .5" apart and just under the foil. Without measuring I'd say no more than 1" under the existing 2 shots from my original zero last night. I walked to the berm in between shots and nuc'd it before the second shot. So far this is a completely animal from my first scope. I will probably shoot it again this evening.
Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/22/22 04:36 AM

I'm relieved to hear the new Yoter seems to be checking out for you! Not much more frustrating but a [beeep] good feeling when the replacement shoots right.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/22/22 07:55 PM

Putting this up for V223.

Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 12:41 AM

Thanks 204 AR

Seems the replacement yoter is still shifting just like my first one.

Purple is original zero in low 20's last Thursday in the dark.

All later shots were in daylight.

Blue is next morning in low teens.

Green is this morning in mid 20's.

All three above groups were cold gun and cold ammo and scope was turned on and on sleep mode while chilling on porch.

Red is today after I took the gun and ammo in the house for about 20 minutes to warm everything up after shooting the green.

I then let the gun cool on the bench for 15 minutes or so but kept the ammo warm. I then shot the yellow.

The two with the white line were shot after letting the ammo cool on the bench along with the gun.

Between this replacement unit, my original and 2 of my buddies we have 4 that will not hold zero and seem to have mainly vertical issues. I measured the center of the high right group and low left group at 2.5". All initial adjustments were done at base mag and have not been changed.


Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 04:45 AM

Sh*t that's a bummer
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 10:03 AM

Oh boy. Now what? Send it back again?
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 10:29 AM

Good question. If I thought a new one would hold poi that would be a good option but I have no faith in their products holding poi from what I've seen. Took 6 Pulsar units to get one that holds poi and I don't understand the inner workings myself so what does a guy do? They are gonna blame it on everything but their product. I would be thrilled if the issues was on my end but I'm 110% sure it isn't or I wouldnt be posting this for fear of misleading people who are researching these units.

There seems to be some members here who are having better luck than we are but I consider our units unreliable. They shift as bad as my original Trail xp 50's.

You will hear chatter about only shooting at night and certain targets etc. because not shooting at night or certain targets will cause "odd" or "weird" poi shift. Poi shift is poi shift and the only shoot at night theory is a way user justifies an issue. Just my opinion, and I used to say the same things on this site so after enough headaches maybe others might not dismiss those issues next time.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 11:53 AM

Shot mine yesterday. Inch lower than previous zero on first two shots using the pip on 3x. I did not adjust anything. Shot 4 more total using main screen crosshairs on 3x and it was dead on, exactly where I had it zeroed previously. I donít know what to think of that. Iím not happy with that but so far I have only experienced maybe an inch of shift. Sometimes it was left to right and sometimes it was vertical. So far it has not been as bad as my the trails I owned. I can deal with that till season ends.

I should add that it was previously zeroed using the pip on 3x.

Do you guys use the pip or main crosshairs to zero? Iím all ears and open to any ideas if someone thinks I should be doing something different.
Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 11:58 AM

Having dealt with half a dozen scopes that shifted and considering endless variables trying to figure them out then finally getting two that hold, I agree 223. If the scope holds, it holds end of story. Day, night, warm or cold they hold. If your having to shoot in certain conditions your compensating for a shift. I wouldn't feel confident saying that without owning a couple that hold and shooting them a ton. Really hope this gets resolved.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 12:03 PM

Personally, I think you should ask for a full refund V223 and move on. Pretty obvious you'll never be satisfied with Bering Optics in the present iterations. Hopefully the new Pulsar you have will serve you well, and you seem to really like this one.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 12:51 PM

DU is yours still holding zero flawlessly?
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 01:01 PM

Yes, but I haven't removed mine to see if it would return to zero when remounting. It is still shooting right where it was.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 01:11 PM

Originally Posted By: DoubleUp
Personally, I think you should ask for a full refund V223 and move on. Pretty obvious you'll never be satisfied with Bering Optics in the present iterations. Hopefully the new Pulsar you have will serve you well, and you seem to really like this one.


DU, I really want to like the Yoter but the proof is in the pudding. Wayyyy too much money for these kind of issues. I hope you guys scopes hang in there but if they can make one that doesn't shift why does the next???? The ammont of time and ammo I've blown fighting these issues is rediculous.

I had to make two base power vertical adjustments for a total of 1.5" with my Trail 2. It's been solid from 60 degrees down to teens. I was shooting Dogtown 70 grain factory ammo from Midway. It would shoot high groups and low groups with those loads which imo necessitated one of the clicks down. I pulled a few after jamming and there was as much as 2.5 grains of powder difference in those 3 rounds. Ejection patter varied and occasionally there wasn't even enough gas to get the gun to cycle after installing an adjustable gb. Looked like imr4895 in the Dogtown and the velocity matched the weight so I loaded some and they shot into the high groups. That prompted the second of 2 clicks down. Im so thrilled with it I'm about back to full blown Pulsar fanboy! Amazing how much ammo one saves when you hit every critter you shoot at and very little poi testing is required. Not to mention the huge confidence gain.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 01:14 PM

I have not taken mine off since I zeroed it. I figured that would just add another variable
Glad yours is holding up. I know that you would not tolerate a poi shift at some of the distances that you guys shoot.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 01:42 PM

V223, I don't blame you one bit, and as I said, I think you should get your refund and be happy with a Pulsar that really satisfies you. My hunting partner shoots the Thermion XP50 and hasn't made any adjustment in zero that I can remember in going on two years. I don't think I ever moved either of my Apex scopes over one click once I figured out not to sight them in with bright sunshine. I still haven't figured that one out unless the bright sunlight somehow distorted the image to always shoot high about 3 inches. Anyway, good hunting to you and keep the videos coming. Have you hunted any with your new Pulsar on white hot?
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 01:47 PM

Toro, I'm getting to the point where I need to clean my rifle and suppressor again, but I don't have to take the scope off to do either of those. I'm going to have to take it off at some point just to satisfy my mind, but it will probably be later in the spring. Hopefully it will shoot right back to the same POI when re-installed. Right now, like you, I don't want to take a chance on fooling around with it.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 07:24 PM

If Bering will refund my money I would be thrilled to do that but I'm not sure how that works. The whole reason I jumped on the Bering wagon was because everyone raved about their accuracy potential. I guess I will chat with my dealer and contact Bearing. Blows my mind they apart can't even test the units. Other options is to just sell it outright. I'm gonna shoot it in the dark warm and cold before I completely write it off. I dont give up easy.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 08:23 PM

If I get time tomorrow, Iím gonna put mine on a sled, dead on target and run video. Should show if thereís shift. Correct?
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/23/22 11:11 PM

You may have said, but is this an upper you've had a while, proven track record with other optics?

I'd be tempted to swap uppers between the pulsar that you trust and the sy. That should tell the tale pretty fast, but again it's a bunch of more hard to find ammo.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/24/22 08:44 AM

The upper is a bca sidecharge with a varmint contour 12 twist WOA 22 nosler barrel and the ammo is what I load and has always been good for 5 under 1" in 3 different woa uppers. The problem isn't group size it's group shift. I almost put the yoter on one of my 6x6.8 uppers but I wanted to know if the replacement acted different then the first. These WOA barrel have been the easiest to load for and they tend to shoot everything well. All of my rifles have loads tailored just for them with powders that tend to not be temp sensitive and if they won't consistently put 5 at or under 1" I won't hunt with them. I'm absolutely certain the issues is in the optics. I couldn't shoot that bad if I wanted too . Ive seen half inch shift with day optics before but these 2.5" shift are beyond what I think thermal expansion rates of materials will cause. Poi seemed to not change with ammo temp. Original zero and the groups that shifted high were all shot around 20 degrees plus or minus maybe 8 degrees from what I can recall.

The trail shifts were temp related. I can't put my finger on the yoter. Saturday it tended to shoot high at the temp I zeroed it and back close to original zero after warming up. I guess the retical is shifting after a nuc. Awful hard to diagnose when you know nothing about about how the units work.

It's hard to believe 3 of us have the same exact issues and it isn't the optics at fault.

Posted by: Pa. Mick

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/24/22 02:11 PM

I appreciate you guys speaking on this subject for those of us that donít own these YET ! I have been trying to keep up with all the changes in our predator industry. For many of us this might be a 1 time purchase, so we all want the best our money can buy.

I also follow Bering & Pulsar on Facebook. I have been seeing numerous issues on Bering scopes, so Iím happy to see some of them being discussed here too ! Many of us saw the issues Pulsar worked through in years past. There were numerous discussions on them here at that time.

Korey is extremely knowledgeable on thermals for sure as I see him sharing his knowledge with guys on Facebook too. Thanks Korey !!

I still want to see and hear the good, the bad about all of this equipment as that is how we can make our best decision as where to spend our savings ! So keep sharing guys !!
Thanks to all that post !
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/25/22 01:29 AM

Scope was basically dead on tonight in the dark. It had been slightly favoring the right side of the 1" ish foil square so I gave it one base power click and it put one absolute dead center in the foil. I'm gonna move forward with only testing in the dark. I will test it warm and cold tomorrow evening and post the results.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/25/22 05:13 PM

It would be great if something that simple is the answer.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/25/22 07:38 PM

Well I'm afraid it isn't.
I just shot 2 with everything warm out of the house that were about .75" to the right.
I let things cool down on the bench for 15 min. (19 degrees here) and shot 2 more that were 1.5" higher but less right and pretty centered.

The first 2 shots were 1.5"ish inch apart vertically and the second 2 were maybe an inch apart vertically for a total of 2.5" or more spread. Kinda funny the group shifted vertically and my groups suffered vertically as well. I see a reoccurring theme of vertical shift.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/25/22 10:06 PM

Dang it.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/25/22 10:21 PM

Pulsar Trail 2 is still dead center.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/25/22 10:31 PM

Both uppers are set up the same? I had a handguard give me fits on a build. Just spitballing. Sounds like you've gone through everything possible. I'd have to swap scopes on the uppers as a last ditch try.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/25/22 11:16 PM

V223, that's tough for sure. Seems like you've had more than your share of thermal scopes that won't hold zero for you.

I shot my rifle yesterday to check zero. First time I've checked it since around the first of Nov. The following picture is from the last shot in November. As you can see it was just slightly low and right of dead center. The HVAC is 4 stripes cut out of one width about a foot long to make the crosshairs.

IMG_20220124_165927098 by Double Up, on Flickr

Yesterday after sundown before leaving to go hunting. I fired one shot. It was just over an inch higher than the shot in early Nov. which with change in temps and weather seemed reasonable over an almost 3 month period. It hit just left of center on the HVAC. I marked the shot in Nov. after I covered it with HVAC with a permanent marker.

The second shot you see was from this morning. It was cloudy and pretty heavy overcast with light wind, so I shot again with a cold barrel just like yesterday. It hit just to the right of yesterday's shot and the two could have been covered with a dime.

IMG_20220125_112411328 by Double Up, on Flickr

I had some test loads with 50 grain ballistic tips and 50 Speer TNT that I wanted to shoot so I shot those and also shot at 150 and 200 as well as the 100. So now with the rifle and suppressor warmed I fired a third shot (also 50 V-max) at the target. I didn't think to take a picture, but it was just slightly below the left hole and the 3 holes would have been covered by a nickel for sure. So I feel confident that it has held zero pretty well and I didn't make any changes. The best group was with the 50 Speer TNT and they clover-leafed.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 07:38 AM

I think the next step for me is figuring out how in good conscience I dump a scope with the issues I'm having? I have no faith in bering making in right and I'm not one to unload junk in a dishonest manner. I can't see it being a big seller here lol and I don't do Facebook. From the four I've had experience with they all shift like mine and not one of the owners is happy. I'm just glad the warranty is transferable.

DU it looks like your groups shifted up a bit more than I would be comfy with but atleast it stayed there. Mine changed ,2.5" in 15 min.

From what I understand Bering can't test the units and basically told me they just put a new objective lens in problematic ones and hope for the best. Speaking from my personal experience with both the units and customer service my advice to anyone looking to dump hard earned money into gun mounted thermal is to avoid Bearing like the plague.

I think between my main hunting partner and myself we've had 12 thermal scope between us since 2017 and the only two that have held are my current Trail 2 and my partners original Apex xd38a or whatever those first units were called. The original Trails were a nightmare but my experience with these Yoters has been no better.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 08:49 AM

As I said, you've had more than your share of scopes not holding zero. I think I would contact the dealer and ask for a refund or perhaps apply the full amount to another brand which you could then sell without ever putting it on a rifle. That way you could have a clear conscious about selling.

I've only had 3 thermals, the two Apex 50's and this one. Never had a minute's problem with holding zero on the Apex scopes. The SY gave me some issues at first, but I was determined to be sure if it was the scope, the rifle, or the mount. In the end after numerous times of adjusting the LaRue mount, switching to a daytime optic to be sure it wasn't the rifle and even switching rifles, cleaning the rifle and then cleaning it again. I determined that it was the rifle plus I have a feeling that some of my initial issue was not getting the front of the LaRue mount pushed forward tight against the rail before camming it.

Anyway, it worked out for me, but I can feel your frustrations with your experience with them.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 09:31 AM

I might try it on my 6x6.8 or my stag model 6 just to back up the fact it isn't the rifle. However, I think I will post it in the classifieds if anyone is interested in a good price on a thermal and is so sure it is my ammo, my shooting or my rifle that is at fault lol.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 11:07 AM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I might try it on my 6x6.8 or my stag model 6 just to back up the fact it isn't the rifle.
I would do the opposite. I would put a glass scope on the same gun. If you shoot in varying temp conditions, at the same distance, with the same gun, and with the same ammo as your thermal scope, you have totally proved it is either the scope or the mount of the scope. Adding a 2nd gun may be helpful but if it doesn't shoot, then you are back to you should test a glass scope on that gun. Temp plays a factor on more things than just thermals. Barrels, ammo, stocks, etc can all be impacted by changes in temp. This is why you want to keep all the variables as close to the same as possible and take the thermal out of the equation and replace it with a glass scope.

I have had times where I was sure it was the scope and putting a known glass scope on the rifle proved the issue was the scope and I have had it prove the issue was in the rifle/ammo/suppressor, etc.

If you put a glass scope on and the test confirms it truly is the scope and/or mount, and since you feel you have exhausted your options with Bering, I would contact your dealer to see if you can get a credit towards a different optic.

One more thing I don't know if I mentioned, but have you checked the tightness of the screws under the mount? I have only seen this one time before where this was the culprit, but it is worth checking if you haven't. If this was the culprit, I would anticipate the scope not grouping vs a shift, but check it in case.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 12:36 PM

I had day glass back on the rifle to test but never got around to it before I got the replacement unit back but I can put it on easy enough and test it.

Problem is we've had consistent cold temps here and my zeroing and most of my testing has been in a small temp window. Only other temp was out of the house temp.

I can zero in the cold and then the next day it's high in the cold and dead on warm. It makes no sense.


Posted by: Heymartay

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 01:44 PM

I just wonder if weíre being a bit unrealistic on the expectations of thermal. Your seeing an image, not the real thing like a regular scope or nv. Every time it nucs things change to keep the image sharp. Iíve been shooting scopes for 50 years and consider it good to shoot inch groups at a hundred with a regular scope, and thatís 6.5 -20 leupold . I could see the if itís jumping 3-4 inches but a half inch I think is getting to picky. It is and image.
Posted by: Heymartay

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 01:45 PM

My opinion fwiw.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 01:50 PM

There are some that donít move at all.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 01:58 PM

It is moving almost 3".

My pulsar Trail 2 xp 50 is not shifting.
Posted by: KjBeachy

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 03:27 PM

V233, why don't you send that piece of junk scope to me, I'll use it as a scanner LOL
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/26/22 04:07 PM

They do have a dandy image!
Posted by: Bowhunt

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 08:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Heymartay
I just wonder if weíre being a bit unrealistic on the expectations of thermal. Your seeing an image, not the real thing like a regular scope or nv. Every time it nucs things change to keep the image sharp. Iíve been shooting scopes for 50 years and consider it good to shoot inch groups at a hundred with a regular scope, and thatís 6.5 -20 leupold . I could see the if itís jumping 3-4 inches but a half inch I think is getting to picky. It is and image.


You think we are being unrealistic to expect that a weapon sighting device costing $3k, $4k, $5k, $6k, or even $9k+ hits where we are aiming?!! Spend $3k on a day optic and see what you get. Heck, you don't even have to spend that much to get something fantastic in a day optic. I'm with you on a half inch or so. Many shooters can't even shoot well enough to tell the difference in that much shift. However, most of my rifles shoot in the .3 - .5s and when the sight is 3" off from where I left it or moves 3" when the adjustment I made is supposed to move it .5" (if it moves at all), then I don't think it is unrealistic to be upset about that. If it won't hit what I'm aiming at.......first of all I wouldn't consider it ethical to hunt with, and secondly it's not worth more than a paper weight, unless all you want to do is see in the dark. If that's the case, then buy a $20 Maglite and be done with it.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 10:27 AM

Hopefully, V223 will proceed with testing his rifle with a day scope. That way he can eliminate whether the rifle is shooting consistent groups testing just like he did with the SY. Then it is narrowed down for certain to either the SY or the SY LaRue mount. That is really the only for sure way to know. If it is the scope or mount then he won't know for sure which one, but for sure it is one or the other, and since it comes as a unit would still require a refund in my opinion.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 11:56 AM

Well said DoubleUp. Per Heymartay's comment, yes thermal tech isn't as accurate as glass scopes or people would use them in shooting competitions. Let's say the group moves 2" when shooting from day to day with thermal. If you use a glass scope and shoot at the same distance from the same rests with similar changes in temp, with the same gun and same ammo, and let's say the POI moves 1". You have proven the gun's POI is moving on both. The precision of thermal could explain a little more lack of accuracy. If the glass scope shoots the same POI multiple times with no shift, then the gun/ammo is not the culprit.

One other potential culprit is since with thermal you are shooting at an image as Heymartay mentioned, shooting at a consistent thermal target is important, but we have been down this rabbit hole before on this thread.

Recreating the test with a glass scope is the easiest way to know if the culprit is the thermal scope/mount. If it is the thermal, talk to your dealer and/or Bering (which V223 already did), get it replaced (which V223 already did), or get it refunded or credit towards a different thermal.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 01:44 PM

I will try to get day glass on the rifle this evening and test the rifle/ammo combo. I think this mount/Leupold scope combo was the one I had on it and zeroed prior to purchasing the yoter.

I will install the day scope, shoot it warm and then leave it and the ammo sit on the bench for 15 minutes and shoot again. I'm not going to adjust the scope at anytime since the crosshair should be settled in. I will only worry about group position.

I will either A. Look like the biggest jackazz on the interweb or
B. Prove my yoter is faulty.
I'm almost hope to eat crow lol. Wouldn't that be great for the thermal world.
I'm here to figure things out not run my mouth so I will gets us some test results.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 01:54 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I will install the day scope, shoot it warm and then leave it and the ammo sit on the bench for 15 minutes and shoot again. I'm not going to adjust the scope at anytime since the crosshair should be settled in. I will only worry about group position.

I will either A. Look like the biggest jackazz on the interweb or
B. Prove my yoter is faulty.
I'm almost hope to eat crow lol. Wouldn't that be great for the thermal world.
I'm here to figure things out not run my mouth so I will gets us some test results.
I would shoot it on at least two separate days or night with hopefully a temp difference.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 02:32 PM

Gonna be 34 tonight at dark
17 in the morning.
I will base line warm out of house and then after it cools and in the morning for sure.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 05:58 PM

Left the shop early and Vx1 4-12x40 is back on the rifle

Shot 3 and it is dead on to a half inch low.
I will shoot 3 more after 15 minutes.
I know the world is waiting and watching like when they were pulling baby Jessica from the well lol
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 06:21 PM

I sent 204 some pics of a warm gun 3 shot group and another 3 shots after 15 minutes of gun and ammo on bench at 31 degrees. I'm sure he will be kinda enough to post them for me.

There is no poi shift.

Mount to scope body screws are tight.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 07:20 PM



Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/27/22 07:31 PM

Thanks 204AR!
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 09:33 AM

Left the rifle sit on the porch for 30 min. at 27 degrees this morning and shot 3. Absolutely no shift.

It is undeniable that both of the Yoters I have had have a poi shift issue.

If anyone wants to see a group pic I can try to get someone to post it for me.

I need to figure out how to move forward. Imo Ive got an unsellable unusable pile.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 10:24 AM

Well shoot, sounds like you've done everything you can do. Time for a refund and move forward. Hopefully the issues with these gets identified and resolved.

Comparing the trail to the sy, looking at the same target at the same time of day, does the target appear exactly the same in each? Same amount of bloom, etc? I don't have much experience with these so asking an honest question. My issues I think were the target could appear drastically different with different amounts of sunlight or different positioning. I've got an idea for a target that should eliminate that but haven't tried it yet.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 10:51 AM

Yoter has a more defined crisper image than the trail 2.

However, shooting at cold tinfoil on a cardboard background has no bloom especially at night. As far as some kind of odd reflection in the daytime I'm not sure about.

Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 11:01 AM

I left a message at Bering. I have a feeling this is gonna be a slow process.

So far my experience with Bering has not been too good. This issue has existed since I purchased the unit around Thanksgiving and noone seems to excited about resolving the issue.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 04:23 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
So far my experience with Bering has not been too good. This issue has existed since I purchased the unit around Thanksgiving and noone seems to excited about resolving the issue.
Night Goggles has had so few issues with Bering thermals that most or our customers never need to contact Bering Customer Service. What I do tell anyone contacting them is call until you reach someone vs leaving a voicemail or sending an email. This is what I do when I am looking to reach their Customer Service. Just my .02.

V223 a few of us asked you to test the gun with a glass scope and you did. If it were me, I would probably look to move to a different option. Confidence in any weapon/scope is key.

The only other thing I can think of is something on the rail of the gun is having an issue with the LaRue mount causing some minor movement. You could give a Bobro mount a try. However, then you are out another $180 and sending the scope to Bering to attach the Bobro. I didn't mention this earlier because I didn't know how far down the rabbit hole you wanted to go. Spending more money on something you don't have any confidence in doesn't seem like a great option, but I wanted to at least mention it.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 05:34 PM

Originally Posted By: Kirsch

The only other thing I can think of is something on the rail of the gun is having an issue with the LaRue mount causing some minor movement. You could give a Bobro mount a try. However, then you are out another $180 and sending the scope to Bering to attach the Bobro. I didn't mention this earlier because I didn't know how far down the rabbit hole you wanted to go. Spending more money on something you don't have any confidence in doesn't seem like a great option, but I wanted to at least mention it.


I was wondering this also. I have no experience with BCA side chargers so had to go look at a pic on their site and zoom in on it. I see nothing that should interfere, but I'm not familiar with the Larue mount either.

I saw a facebook post about someone having an issue on a large frame side charger with the Larue mount, is why I thought of that.

V223's been around the block enough I'm sure he'd have figured that out if there was an issue. It's just so weird to see 2 units have that problem, most would objectively say that's unlikely, but possible, and appears to be the case. I'd offer to test the SY out, till spring, or longer if it didn't act up, for free thumbup. That's just the kind of guy I am..

In all seriousness, I have a simple YHM riser I'd send if you thought maybe the rail attachment was an issue. I'm not using it atm. It clamps solid, so should eliminate any possible out of spec rail issues. Just a thought.
Posted by: Burnsome...

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 07:01 PM

Just throwing something out there Gents...and perhaps others more knowledgeable than me can chime in, but is there a possibility that a "parallax-related" type issue might be going on? That being the repeatable positioning of your eye in relation to the Super Yoter.

With all the issues you've been having I got curious and took my Super Hogster out today to check point of impacts as the only thing I've shot with it lately is coyotes and havent had any problems hitting them. My sight in was right were it was last time I checked it about 3 months ago.

I didnt think about the possibility of parallax until I got home from the range otherwise I would have done a test with my SH today by positioning my eye to the extreme left/right/up/down in relation to the center of the scope and see if it had any impact on grouping.

The reason I bring it up, I've been using Aimpoint's and other red dot type scopes since their inception and one thing that Aimpoint (and other manufacturers) tout the term "parallax free" in their marketing. Well, I've found thats pretty true most of the time, but not always. If you position your eye to the extreme edges of the scope, it will affect the POI more than most folks know. I've proven this over and over in many rifle classes I've taught and teach to front line patrol officers, so they are at least aware of it if they ever have to take that million dollar shot...

I dont know if that's a factor in a thermal scope or not and I wish I had tested that possibility today. I do know you have to position your eye very close to the SH to get a full image. Actually, I'm going to test mine tomorrow by locking the gun on a rest and simply look through it after obtaining a target spot and move my eye around and see if the reticle/dot moves in relation to my eye position. Should be easy to see if it would affect that.

IF it is a factor, the ability to keep your cheek weld and eye position in the same exact spot every time you shoot would reduce group sizes and might explain what's happening here.

Just a thought...
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 07:26 PM

Moving to a different option would be great if Bering will do something about it because my dealer told me to sell it on Facebook. Guess what I'm not on Facebook crazy and I don't dump faulty items on other people.

The first one had ample clearance between the adjusting nut and the receiver but it was also 6 clicks from max tight and clocked for max clearance with one of the three legs points straight out. I mounted the second one the same and never looked at the clearance but if I recall it had plenty of room to be in any position on the first one.

Ive considered putting it on my Stag model 6 to test it on a non bca receiver. That rifle is a tac driver and I have plenty of .223 components.

Hard to believe group poi will shift 2.5" after just sitting on n the bench for 15 min. then shift again but potentially be dead on the next day. It does what my Trails did.
Posted by: DoubleUp

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 07:42 PM

I think I might dump the dealer instead.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 07:46 PM

Originally Posted By: DoubleUp
I think I might dump the dealer instead.


Made that comment to a buddy earlier.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 08:10 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
Originally Posted By: DoubleUp
I think I might dump the dealer instead.


Made that comment to a buddy earlier.


+1, that's a terrible dealer attitude. Geez.

I think you've done your due diligence, just thinking about it, a mount shift should show up within the groups, not from one group to the next.

Super disappointing, everyone here I think wishes it was something simple or an "aha" moment revealed itself.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 08:34 PM

I've got it on my Stag. Mount nut is backed off ten clicks from max tight to get good lever cam over. It needed to be six clicks from tight to get the same cam over on the bca rail. Now to see if can muster the ambition to get off the couch and out into the 18 deg. snow to zero.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 08:44 PM

You are correct, it would make sense it could be the mount/rail if it got banged around a lot, etc and moved. Just sitting for 15 minutes and shooting, seems kind of odd that it would have an impact. Let us know how it goes.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/28/22 10:16 PM

It was 5" or so high and maybe an inch left at 50 yards on a fresh G2 profile. After a couple adjustments I had it dead center at 50 so I moved to my 100 yard bench.
I ended up at -1.62 and 10.26 and elevation is dead on to a half inch high but it's still .75" ish left and one more base clicks takes me too far right by an inch or so. The last couple moves down seem to move it left the amount that took me off of center. This load was very accurate whenever I tried it last summer and the groups were pretty poor tonight (1.25"ish) for whatever reason but I think it will at least tell me if it's shifting.
Its 20 degrees tonight so I will try it warm out of house tomorrow and then after it sits on the bench for 15 min.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/29/22 10:50 AM

Left and right was good warm out of house a bit ago but about 3" lower than last night's zero.
I will shoot it cold but there is no doubt the unit has issues.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/29/22 11:18 AM

20 minutes on the bench at 15 degrees and poi moved 1" higher than warm gun group but still 2" lower than original zero last night at about 20 degrees.

Both groups strung horizontal which made seeing vertical shift very obvious. Each 3 shot group had 2 touching and 1 about an inch left. Definitely need to tune a cold weather load for this rifle but who hunts with a .223 anyway lol.

This Yoter does the same vertical shift on this rifle as it did on the first one.

I am absolutely convinced it is scope issue and not a mount issue.

I am not going to waste another primer on this turd.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 01/31/22 03:50 PM

Ive let a message and have tried to call three times and noone answers. I decided to just continuously call until they answered and it finally worked. I emailed them all my pics with description. I guess I will wait for them to call.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/01/22 02:31 PM

If anyone is following this saga, I just spoke with Bering to verify that they did receive the emails. It appears they have received them and the tech needs a while to review. Should be interesting.
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/01/22 02:36 PM

following
Posted by: bambers

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/02/22 11:48 AM

Thanks for posting this story.
Posted by: CallingArkansas

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/02/22 08:48 PM

I have Hogster 25mm and a Super Hogster from Night Goggles arriving tomorrow. Hopefully I donít have these same issues.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/04/22 04:08 PM

Day 5 no response from Bering. Good thing this is my second scope. thumbdown
Posted by: Pa. Mick

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/04/22 05:58 PM

Customer service is very important in my purchases ! So is USA made products ! Iím sure there are possible future customers following this post.
Thanks for posting !

This is why Iím a Foxpro customer !
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/07/22 11:23 AM

Ended up putting the yoter back on Friday evening for a buddy to use. It was high a couple inches and right about an inch so I re-zeroed it using only the main screen and headed out hunting.

Fast forward to Sunday evening I checked zero warm out of the house and it was low about 2" and 1.5" ish right. After spending a bit of time comparing pip to main screen the second shot was an inch higher but still right.

Left gun on bench in low 30's temp for 15 min and next two were right about .5" higher than the second one of the previous 2.

Took the gun back in house to warm up and repeated the test process. The same shift pattern occurred.

I gave it one base power click to the left and it was now perfect left right but still .75" low .

I had to try one click up.....this is where I started chasing it. It didn't want to respond and then it would over respond to click and it wanted to move left as well.

I ended up going back to my original elevation coordinates which was .75" low and now it was a bit too high.

I ended up .54 coordinate lower than I started but it was now zeroed.

The sun was setting and it was getting cooler.

It seems to impact higher as temps drop and boy is it frustrating. It took 26 rounds to chase it .54 left and .54 on elevation only to end up on an elevation coordinated that reflect the opposite of what I need to do because of shift.

One week and still no return call from Bering.

I should add all shooting was done on main screen this time.

Pip crosshairs always appeared to be .5" left of main screen crosshairs at 1 and 2 x




Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/07/22 11:59 AM

Dang that would drive me to drinking. I would have liked to hear that they took it back and promptly issued a refund. I think you've more than proven that there is an issue somewhere, and jumped through every hoop to make it work. It's amazingly poor odds to have two bad scopes unless they happened to be made on the same work shift or lot number that happened to have a bad component.
Posted by: 204 AR

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/07/22 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: CallingArkansas
I have Hogster 25mm and a Super Hogster from Night Goggles arriving tomorrow. Hopefully I donít have these same issues.


I have the same combo and it's been solid. I had my doubts for a while but it was a rifle or target image issue on the SH. I assume your using the 25 to scan with. I do that and also clamp it on a 22lr to shoot mice with and it's been solid. Got 3 last night lol.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/07/22 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
One week and still no return call from Bering
I know you have talked to Bering. I say this to everyone who needs customer service from Bering. Call Bering and keep calling until someone picks up. If someone else picks up, I would ask for I would ask for Diana or Boris. If you are not getting anywhere, work with your dealer as this is one of the roles they should be providing for you.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/07/22 02:25 PM

I did speak with Diana on Monday to get an email for group pics. I followed up on Tuesday with Diana to verify pics came through. She said the tech has them but needs time to look them over and would be calling me. I told her I understood and thanked her.

Well.....it's a week later.....I'm not sure they give a chit about me or their pos scope to be quite honest.

It's getting to the point if I call I might just show my azz and I don't want to do that.
Posted by: Krockus

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/09/22 03:19 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I did speak with Diana on Monday to get an email for group pics. I followed up on Tuesday with Diana to verify pics came through. She said the tech has them but needs time to look them over and would be calling me. I told her I understood and thanked her.

Well.....it's a week later.....I'm not sure they give a chit about me or their pos scope to be quite honest.

It's getting to the point if I call I might just show my azz and I don't want to do that.


What reticle are you sighting in with. Maybe put a level on your scope and see if that makes a difference.. I was having issues with MY SH and was canting the rifle a bit different
each time I shot it..
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/09/22 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Krockus
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I did speak with Diana on Monday to get an email for group pics. I followed up on Tuesday with Diana to verify pics came through. She said the tech has them but needs time to look them over and would be calling me. I told her I understood and thanked her.

Well.....it's a week later.....I'm not sure they give a chit about me or their pos scope to be quite honest.

It's getting to the point if I call I might just show my azz and I don't want to do that.


What reticle are you sighting in with. Maybe put a level on your scope and see if that makes a difference.. I was having issues with MY SH and was canting the rifle a bit different
each time I shot it..


Issue is primary vertical.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/09/22 05:26 PM

I called a talked to a tech on Monday afternoon. After convincing him the scope really has issues he seemed like he wanted to help. He said he will email the owner and I will hear from him no later than the next day. Well.......2 days later no call. I'm not too excited about it because I'm not sure Bering can deliver a non shifting scope. I will let you draw your own conclusion about dealing with Bering and how they take care of business.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/09/22 05:37 PM

Did it sound like the tech had any idea of what may be wrong with the scope?
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 08:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Toro
Did it sound like the tech had any idea of what may be wrong with the scope?


Well....not really. He spent some time trying to tell me it was an out of spec rail or my rifle. I overwhelmed him with proof it wasn't and shut him down on that deflectiom pretty quick when I explained all my testing with multiple rifles, day glass, different targets etc. My honest opinion is that they have no clue hence no call. He said they get very few complaints but admitted most people would have no clue if they had this issue anyway.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 09:22 AM

At this point they should have had you taken care of with a refund IMO. At this point parting ways is probably best for all parties involved.

One thing I'm curious about is you stated that your 2 yoters was bad and you had two friends that bought them at the same time that was bad also?? What is their situation and did they send theirs back as well??
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 10:10 AM

They are having the same issue. They are waiting to see what becomes of mine.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 10:28 AM

I donít know anything about their operation but Iím getting the feeling that they donít have anyone stateside that would be able to fix the issue. Iím interested to see what they do if they canít correct it. Hopefully a refund. I doubt it though. Iíll bet they credit you towards other models of theirs.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 11:19 AM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
They are having the same issue. They are waiting to see what becomes of mine.


I guess I'm not understanding completely, I understand they are having the same zero shifts as you but did they go through the extensive testing you did and did they send theirs back??

For over 4k if my scope was giving me trouble I wouldn't wait for anyone to see how things turned out and Berings phone would be ringing daily until they agreed to fix it or compensate me.

Your very fortunate to have another scope to continue to hunt with but most guys don't and with equipment gone or not working properly cost you days of the season that you simply can't ever get back. I look at new moon cycles as very precious time that doesn't last long and spaced out a month apart. I do most of my hunting during those times and if a scope is gone only 1 of those periods I've lost about 1/5 of my whole season.

I'm curious to see how Bering handles it from here along with your buddies issues. Thanks for the updates as I'm "one of those" Bering owners that is following.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 11:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Toro
I donít know anything about their operation but Iím getting the feeling that they donít have anyone stateside that would be able to fix the issue. Iím interested to see what they do if they canít correct it. Hopefully a refund. I doubt it though. Iíll bet they credit you towards other models of theirs.


Not completely sure but I thought maybe Kirsch said they was serviced here in the US and that was one of Berings advantages over like AGM or others?? Maybe he knows and can clarify.

Mine has shifted a little once but hasn't given me any trouble at all since I rezeroed and I've checked it several times so I'm not exactly sure what my issue was. When I went out west I checked my zero as soon as I got there and shot the same zero in North Dakota as here in Indiana. My range is about 570' in altitude and Bismark area is about 1700'
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 12:42 PM

One thing I've noticed is it seems everyone here with a yoter has seen some kind of a shift where, "they're not sure what went on". Likewise at least some of the hogster users have seen this too.

Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 02:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Kino M
Not completely sure but I thought maybe Kirsch said they was serviced here in the US and that was one of Berings advantages over like AGM or others?? Maybe he knows and can clarify.
Bering absolutely does provide service for their full line up of products and the service is done in the US. They don't manufacture every part themselves, nor does any thermal manufacturer. However, being able to service something and knowing what is causing the result V223 has reported can be two totally different things. V223, I am sorry you have experienced issues with your Yoters, but saying that Bering doesn't have people Stateside who can perform service simply is not true.

Talk to the dealer you bought the Yoter from and get them involved.
Posted by: Ksracer

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Kino M
Originally Posted By: varminter .223
They are having the same issue. They are waiting to see what becomes of mine.


For over 4k if my scope was giving me trouble I wouldn't wait for anyone to see how things turned out and Berings phone would be ringing daily until they agreed to fix it or compensate me.


After the $10k N-Vision fiasco I went through, I'm a little more patient with Bering

Somebody told me I made a mistake when I bought a Bering. My response was "Maybe, but a $4.5k mistake won't hurt near as bad as the $10k one did.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 04:14 PM

Thanks Kirsch, I thought I remembered somewhere I seen you write that.

As for the Super Hogsters shifting, that's the first I've heard of it being a widespread issue as well. I've owned 2 and still have one and zero issues with both. My hunting buddies that I hunt with (3 different guys) have no issues of shifting.

One of my buddies did have the front (zoom) button quite working a couple weeks ago. Getting it fixed was nothing more than a call to Bering for a return and about 10 days later they had him fixed.
Posted by: Heymartay

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 04:32 PM

Lost my front cap on my 35 a few nights ago , called Bering up and talked to a lady who took my name and address and said weíll ship one out in the morning. No charge.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Kirsch
Originally Posted By: Kino M
Not completely sure but I thought maybe Kirsch said they was serviced here in the US and that was one of Berings advantages over like AGM or others?? Maybe he knows and can clarify.
Bering absolutely does provide service for their full line up of products and the service is done in the US. They don't manufacture every part themselves, nor does any thermal manufacturer. However, being able to service something and knowing what is causing the result V223 has reported can be two totally different things. V223, I am sorry you have experienced issues with your Yoters, but saying that Bering doesn't have people Stateside who can perform service simply is not true.

Talk to the dealer you bought the Yoter from and get them involved.


Originally Posted By: Kirsch
Originally Posted By: Kino M
Not completely sure but I thought maybe Kirsch said they was serviced here in the US and that was one of Berings advantages over like AGM or others?? Maybe he knows and can clarify.
Bering absolutely does provide service for their full line up of products and the service is done in the US. They don't manufacture every part themselves, nor does any thermal manufacturer. However, being able to service something and knowing what is causing the result V223 has reported can be two totally different things. V223, I am sorry you have experienced issues with your Yoters, but saying that Bering doesn't have people Stateside who can perform service simply is not true.

Talk to the dealer you bought the Yoter from and get them involved.


Fwiw I don't recall ever saying Bering doesn't have anyone state side to service these. All I know is when you send one in for repair it goes to California.

I've talked to my dealer multiple times. As a matter of fact he inquired if I received a return call the other day. I thought I had the ball rolling with Bering Tuesday but apparently not.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 05:41 PM

Called Bering again just now. They forwarded me to the same guy I talked to but after being on hold it put me through to his voice mail so I left a message. sneaky2

I will say when I had issues with Pulsar I never had to go through a dealer.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 06:24 PM

V223, I simply cannot wrap my brain around how two different guys you hunt with are just "waiting to see how it turns out" with your struggle and their own issues. Maybe I've missed something and they as well are in contact with Bering but if they are simply waiting for you, I just don't understand how that helps any if you all in any way??? They also spent in excess of 4k and I can't think of any of my friends that would wait for me and basically do nothing. If they are simply riding your coattails I'd be on their a$$ to help themselves and you out and get with Bering to get something done.

This thread alone has almost 20 pages for goodness sake and has drug on since your original post of 12/03, that's over two months with no closure! Thats over 2 months of three guys running "defective " scopes with "issues"!!

If like you say you guys have now had 4 different Yoters and they all shift i would think that maybe you might get better/more results if all three of you guys was communicating with Bering to prove your cause instead of only you??

Again maybe you guys are but its a suggestion if your not. It would also help prove your theory of a bad batch from the same dealer??

Anyway, hopefully you get it resolved soon as well as your buddies, please let us know how this pans out.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 06:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Kino M
V223, I simply cannot wrap my brain around how two different guys you hunt with are just "waiting to see how it turns out" with your struggle and their own issues. Maybe I've missed something and they as well are in contact with Bering but if they are simply waiting for you, I just don't understand how that helps any if you all in any way??? They also spent in excess of 4k and I can't think of any of my friends that would wait for me and basically do nothing. If they are simply riding your coattails I'd be on their a$$ to help themselves and you out and get with Bering to get something done.

This thread alone has almost 20 pages for goodness sake and has drug on since your original post of 12/03, that's over two months with no closure! Thats over 2 months of three guys running "defective " scopes with "issues"!!

If like you say you guys have now had 4 different Yoters and they all shift i would think that maybe you might get better/more results if all three of you guys was communicating with Bering to prove your cause instead of only you??

Again maybe you guys are but its a suggestion if your not. It would also help prove your theory of a bad batch from the same dealer??

Anyway, hopefully you get it resolved soon as well as your buddies, please let us know how this pans out.


One guy has been working a bunch and lives a couple north of me and has only been able to hunt a couple times this year and hasn't had a chance to really test it on the bench but has seen shift off of his pod.

The hunting buddy of mine that has seen issues with his is neck deep in k5 blazer build and LS swap that makes a Yoter seem cheap. He hasn't hunted much this year and I think more scope headaches and a slow start this season coupled with the Blazer project are all part of the cause. He's just kinda fallen off the bus.

I've put a lot of time and effort into testing my thermal scopes. If I wasn't self employed and could take the time to test and didn't have a rifle range in my yard I'm not sure how well I would be able to test them. It would be a nightmare to have to drive somewhere to test this stuff.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 08:17 PM

Originally Posted By: varminter .223
I will say when I had issues with Pulsar I never had to go through a dealer.
you donít have to go through your dealer but are seemingly asking for suggestions and my suggestion is one of your dealerís roles is to assist you. You bought the scope from a dealer and not directly from Bering Optics.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/10/22 10:05 PM

At this point I'm not so much asking for suggestions but rather making it know to anyone who is about to dump a fairly large sum of money into a thermal scope what they might be getting both in the product and customer service. I'm guessing mine is not the only one shifting and these problems aren't gonna go away until until the manufacturer knows it and start to hear about it.

Competition and the free market system is what drives manufacturers to improve their product and product prices.

This thread is to inform potential consumers of a product which serve as a bit of the freemarket system.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 11:08 AM

Got a return call from the Bering tech that I left a message with. He said Boris thought an inch or an inch and a half might be the best the unit will do taking into account the pixels and the pitch yada yada yada thermal lingo. This is what I was told earlier by Boris. I explained to him it was a 2.75" shift and it didn't track because I believe it is shifting as I am adjusting and it turns into a chase. He said no it shouldn't do that. I got fairly blunt and told him it's called a Super Yoter and it doesn't hold poi good enough for coyotes especially out to 300 yards. I asked him what I need to do to get my money back because it isn't a usable piece for what it is intended. He said he would talk to accounting have them contact the dealer and get things moving. I told him that I really want to like the scope and that it would be an awesome piece of it would just hold zero and he offered to either send another replacement or move forward with the refund. I explained it was the end of our season and given what I've seen the best thing to do was get a refund. We discussed the new models a bit and I thanked him. He seemed to be a super nice guy that really wanted to help. I'm kinda disappointed that I won't end up with an accurate scope instead but I will step back and reevaluate things. Hopefully the refund process goes well.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 12:13 PM

Thanks for the follow-up, IMO not sure how a company could be more receptive to taking care of its customers, kudos to Boris and Bering.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 02:49 PM

Kind of disheartening to hear that the scope wonít hold zero by design but I am very glad to hear that they are gonna stand behind their warranty and take care of your problem. As long as everything goes smooth will the refund, I would call that good customer service and would continue to do business with them again.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Toro
Kind of disheartening to hear that the scope wonít hold zero by design.
I have to interject a bit. I am not trying to take this thread back down the rabbit hole that has been going for over 10 pages. I totally acknowledge V223 has done his part in testing and from everything I have seen has an issue. However, this post saying the Super Yoter inherently won't hold zero "by design" isn't any truer than saying all thermal scopes inherently won't hold zero by design. Per what V223 described of the conversation, Bering appears to be talking about the science behind thermal engineering and the value of a pixel. As I wasn't on the call, it is an assumption. This information is not unique to Bering thermals as it applies to all thermals.

V223's unit, yes, but not "by design" on all Super Yoters or Bering thermals.

Originally Posted By: Toro
I donít know anything about their operation but Iím getting the feeling that they donít have anyone stateside that would be able to fix the issue.
I have to apologize to V223 as I responded to this post and said V223 had said this in an earlier post. After reading this thread again, I see it was not V223. To reiterate, Bering Optics service is done in TX or CA depending on the model and what service is needed.
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 04:58 PM

I will be the first to admit. I know basically nothing about the science of thermal scopes. And I donít mean this in a argumentative way but there are thermal scopes that hold zero. So I canít see how this could apply to all thermal scopes. If it did then why do some hold zero and others canít. As a lay person, I should logically think thatís itís the design of this particular scope. That is why I used the those terms. That just makes sense to me.

The bottom line in my opinion is that they told him inch to an inch and half shift could be expected. I credit them for that. I wish I knew that before I bought one but I give them credit for not acting like the concerned consumer is wrong and feeding him a bunch of excuses when they know itís to be expected from the product. Even though it took months to get that information. They are offering him a refund and thatís great. I mean that sincerely. Most companies probably wouldnít.

As for my other comment about them not having anyone stateside that really knows whatís going on. I didnít say they didnít. I said I have a feeling they donít and this is because it took them this long to just tell him the scope poi moves. The guy went months without an answer when based on thermal scope science itís common.

And apparently I might be right. They canít fix the issue. Only people that can fix the issue are ones who DESIGNED or developed it. I donít know their country of origin ( and really donít care) but it is apparent that they donít work at bering otherwise they would fix it.

For that kind of money there should not be a poi shift. I am not satisfied with it. Itís good enough to get me through the season but I will be sending mine back in the spring. Hopefully they find a way to fix it but it doesnít sound like that is gonna happen.

I have a 25 hogster and itís been rock solid. Iím not knocking Bering but I am saying that I would not have purchased this scope had I known there was an expected or manufacturer acceptable poi shift.

I know some of you understand the technology. I donít. If you would take the time to explain it me I would listen.

Nothing I wrote was meant to be nasty or in angry way. All Iím say is the scope can be expected to shift poi (which is not acceptable in my opinion) and no one at bering can fix it. I would still buy another bering product but next time I will wait until the jury comes back.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 05:54 PM

Great post Toro and I agree with you 100%. For $4700 MAP price, the optic shouldn't shift, period IMO. If they can produce a scope that has proven to not shift at a lower price than they should be able to on the Yoter.

If I'm understanding this correctly, Boris is saying that 1"-1 1/2" shift is acceptable/expected in some units and IMO thats unacceptable. Had I known this I wouldn't have gambled 4k plus on getting one that doesn't shift that much!

Obviously I wasn't part of the phone conversation either but if what Boris told V223 about expected POI shift is up to 1 1/2" then he is correct that it is inherently unreliable by design. If thats how its designed and those are the expectations/specs than I gotta disagree with you on this Kirsch, holding zero of a scope should be #1, and thats for ALL produced, not some.

All that said I feel I got a good one. I did have a little shift but I don't exactly know why. Mine doesn't track exactly what the values should be but I have no issues getting it zeroed. I've killed many many many coyotes with it this year and its always been "minute of coyote" when I needed it and I've shot some groups with it that would rival many guys shooting daytime scopes.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 07:21 PM

Just to be clear I was indeed told by Boris that an inch or an inch and a half is probably within a reasonable tolerance of shift to expect due to the value of a pixel etc. I'm paraphrasing that statement but in a nutshell that is precisely what he was saying. I was also shocked when he said that bit of shift shouldn't matter. He said something along the lines of it doesn't matter if you shoot him in the left eye or the right etc.....I proceeded to tell him that is entirely too much shift for coyote hunting at longer distances because it doubles and triples beyond that not to mention a change in trajectory. His comments lead me to believe he is not a precision shooter and his products are based around shooting at larger hog sized targets at relatively close range.

The whole reason I purchased this scope was because the info I had been reading about Bering seem to indicate that accuracy was one of their strong points. From my experience this is not the case and had I known I would have never purchased the unit.

I actually was starting to believe that the lower cost (sub 8k) thermals were all going to exhibit these shifts for whatever reason. After seeing how well my Trail 2 will hold zero I no longer believe that to be the case.
Posted by: G Anderson

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 07:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Toro
I will be the first to admit. I know basically nothing about the science of thermal scopes. And I donít mean this in a argumentative way but there are thermal scopes that hold zero. So I canít see how this could apply to all thermal scopes. If it did then why do some hold zero and others canít. As a lay person, I should logically think thatís itís the design of this particular scope. That is why I used the those terms. That just makes sense to me.

The bottom line in my opinion is that they told him inch to an inch and half shift could be expected. I credit them for that. I wish I knew that before I bought one but I give them credit for not acting like the concerned consumer is wrong and feeding him a bunch of excuses when they know itís to be expected from the product. Even though it took months to get that information. They are offering him a refund and thatís great. I mean that sincerely. Most companies probably wouldnít.

As for my other comment about them not having anyone stateside that really knows whatís going on. I didnít say they didnít. I said I have a feeling they donít and this is because it took them this long to just tell him the scope poi moves. The guy went months without an answer when based on thermal scope science itís common.

And apparently I might be right. They canít fix the issue. Only people that can fix the issue are ones who DESIGNED or developed it. I donít know their country of origin ( and really donít care) but it is apparent that they donít work at bering otherwise they would fix it.

For that kind of money there should not be a poi shift. I am not satisfied with it. Itís good enough to get me through the season but I will be sending mine back in the spring. Hopefully they find a way to fix it but it doesnít sound like that is gonna happen.

I have a 25 hogster and itís been rock solid. Iím not knocking Bering but I am saying that I would not have purchased this scope had I known there was an expected or manufacturer acceptable poi shift.

I know some of you understand the technology. I donít. If you would take the time to explain it me I would listen.

Nothing I wrote was meant to be nasty or in angry way. All Iím say is the scope can be expected to shift poi (which is not acceptable in my opinion) and no one at bering can fix it. I would still buy another bering product but next time I will wait until the jury comes back.


Absolutely agree 100% with your assessment.

The "acceptable" POI shift parameters are not something that most people would be happy with...especially with this NOT being disclosed up front by the manufacturer...and you should not have to wait until the sun, the moon and the stars all align just to get it sighted in properly and for it to maintain POI.

One has to wonder with the sudden explosion of the civilian thermal industry whether it was more important to just get units out to the dealers/customers and bypass QC checks or whether they got a bad batch of Chinese components. Regardless, it is a shame that it has come to this.

I will also put a disclaimer out there that none of what I have said is directed at anyone here and not to downgrade any manufacturer over another.
Posted by: WestTX 25/06

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/11/22 11:33 PM

Iíll chime in here. Iíve posted about my Yoter not returning to zero when remounted and not tracking correctly while zeroing in the past (Adventures in Zeroing the SY thread).. I started the return process this week and the Tech Iím talking to is very friendly and seems to want to help. However, the recommendations Iím getting so far are all about trying different tightness setting on the qd mount. Iím basically ignorant when it comes to thermal technology, so Iím welcome to hearing anything telling me Iím wrong here, but what in the world could the mount have to do with the poi moving inconsistently when making zeroing adjustments?

I understand the concept of if the scope is canted, up/down adjustments will also move left or right and vise versa, but what Iím seeing (documented and shown to them) is the scope moving a very inconsistent distance compared to the adjustment made. I would also understand if the mount was letting the scope move it might cause this issue, but I shot groups on my test target and the groups were tight until I changed coordinates every time.

Again, maybe Iím missing something and would welcome a rebuke if Iím wrong, but I would think that folks that built scopes for a living would understand the faulty logic in what they are telling me.

When I made this purchase, I bought into the narrative that Bering put accuracy at a premium in everything they did. My experience and what Iím reading from Varminter (left eye vs right eye comment) makes me wonder if they really understand what coyote hunters want out of a scope.

Just so it doesnít seem like Iím only railing against Bering, Iíll say that I think this is a widespread issue in thermal. I recently re-watched a YouTube review of the Super Yoter by a dealer rep I respect. Iím paraphrasing the comment made , but it was basically this ďthe LaRue qd mount is great, I was able to remount without checking zero and kill a coyote at 100 yards no problemĒ. Itís stuff like this that makes me realize a lot of people that are very plugged into the thermal industry still really have no idea what coyote hunters in open country want or need. I donít blame this guy, because he lives in an area where heís not shooting much past 100 yards. However, precision that hits a coyote broadsides at 100 yards is basically a paper plate sized group. Those of us that have the ability to shoot 200-400 yards almost every night are living in an entirely different world and have different standards than what is being produced for us. I believe if your are going to put the name ďYoterĒ on your scope, you should have an understanding of these needs and produce an optic that meets our standards.

If you look into the precision rifle daytime optic world, you will see review after review detailing scopes tracking accuracy and repeatability. Thermal scope reviews are almost always centered around image quality, battery life, features, etcÖ. Iím convinced this is because the thermal industry is focused on killing hogs inside 100 yards, not coyotes at 250. If the day ever comes that a dealer will put the time and effort into rigorously testing and reviewing thermal scopes from an accuracy standpoint, they will have my business forever.

Posted by: Dark moon 63

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 08:17 AM

It says something about Bering that your getting a full refund. Iím on the fence about which thermal to get but wanted an iray core of some kind. A few companies have gone to the single mount base. Thats asking a lot to have a scope mounted on a center fire rifle getting banged around at night. My only rail concern is to have enough room to mount a brass catcher adapter. Not saying the mount is the problem but it canít be a concern to me, then itís up to the electronics.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 08:43 AM

Imo the LaRue mount is not the issues. My rifles don't get banged around night or day either.
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Dark moon 63
It says something about Bering that your getting a full refund. Iím on the fence about which thermal to get but wanted an iray core of some kind. A few companies have gone to the single mount base. Thats asking a lot to have a scope mounted on a center fire rifle getting banged around at night. My only rail concern is to have enough room to mount a brass catcher adapter. Not saying the mount is the problem but it canít be a concern to me, then itís up to the electronics.



Dark Moon your post brings up a great point about "which thermal to get" and I feel like here on PM there is ALL KINDS of room for a dealer that sells other brands and prostaff to get in on these threads and discussion. I really don't understand why Nightgoggles/Kirsch is the only ones here.

If you step back and take a look, the night calling forum here is about 99% of Kirsch pimping Bering mostly and once in awhile Pulsar products because thats the vast majority of thermal optics Nightgoggles sell. Kirsch is paid by Nightgoggles so i totally understand he is merely helping sell product his company sells. It seems somewhat like a monopoly here sometimes. Thats NOT intended as a dig as IMO Kirsch is an honest and knowledgeable guy about thermal optics and I understand they are site sponsors running a business trying to make money.

The big point I'm trying to make is we don't have sponsers/salesman/prostaff here showcasing, testing and talking about the many many other brands that are available to the consumer. There are LOTS of other options that doesn't get much press here and as a serious hunter I would love to know and hear more about other options.

Next year I'm considering an LRF unit and I definitely want to hear about all the options out there. I've run several Bering products and for the money I feel that they offer a great product BUT thermal technology is rapidly evolving and there are lots of brands that people should also take a look at.
Posted by: Heymartay

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 02:55 PM

Very true, Kirsch has made Bering a lot of money and he has worked and froze his butt off to showcase their products. Just think what another manufacturer could make if they werenít so cheap that they donít have a field guy working for them. Fox pro is popular cause they advertise the heck out of their stuff and same with Lucky Duck. I think Jeff Nimnich does the best explanation on the fly as heís calling, besides that heís a helluva shot.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Kino M
If you step back and take a look, the night calling forum here is about 99% of Kirsch pimping Bering mostly and once in awhile Pulsar products because thats the vast majority of thermal optics Nightgoggles sell.
Kino, really 99% of all the posts on the Night Forum are me "pimping" Bering stuff?

I started by sharing coyote hunting videos same as you do, DoubleUP, V223, 6mm and many others. Based on those videos, and the way I represented myself on Predator Masters, Night Goggles approached me with a potential prostaff position. Why not help out a reputable company that helps Predator Masters, it seemed like a Win-Win. What I post really hasn't changed.

My title with Night Goggles changed this year, but what I do has not. I have always held to the fact my role would not be a commissions role. I am sure financially I would have been way ahead by taking a commission. This is another reason I wanted to change my role to Product Specialist because Prostaff people often get associated with a term like "pimping." I test any thermal that Night Goggles or any thermal company will send me. I kill coyotes and share videos, and I do product reviews. I have attempted to help a lot of people on this forum, and other forums when many didn't even buy a thermal from Night Goggles.

Bering Optics happens to be a company that sees the value in my testing as I have used many different thermals and can provide them a lot of feedback. It also helps out Night Goggles as I get a chance to gain experience using a lot of their different thermals. Does Night Goggles sell a lot of Bering products because I test a lot of them, write reviews, and create coyote videos, sure it does. Just as when I was shooting a Flir PTS536, Night Goggles sold a lot of those as people saw the product in action. Besides what thermals I test, the majority of the videos I produce are from the thermals I purchase myself. My hard-earned dollars have purchased many Bering products because I do feel they provide a tremendous value. I welcome the chance to test any thermal manufacturer's products. I will give them a fair chance, run the same tests I do with Bering thermals, and provide an update to thermal company, Night Goggles, and to the PM community. If their products review well, I may end up buying some of those also.

One of the first things I heard is when Korey joined Night Goggles, he was now going to push the most expensive brand they carry. Why, because this is usually what happens with many Prostaff type positions. I have tried to stay consistent in my testing and the products I use. Part of virtually everything I do for Night Goggles is what type of solutions and knowledge can I provide to help the coyote hunting community.

Somewhere along the line, me trying to provide assistance has turned into "pimping" and according to some (not Kino's remarks) making excuses for Bering Optics. What I provide aren't excuses but experience after assisting I would have to say thousands of thermal users with questions on thermal technologies. Do I take offense to the word "pimping", I do but it is a free country and Kino can say what he wants. It seems by following it up by saying I am honest and knowledgeable guy makes up for the rest. I sincerely hope what I provide to this community is considered a lot more than pimping. This is not a "Kirsch needs to prop himself up post because he feels sorry for himself." It is unfortunate the same community I spend a lot of time trying to support, isn't always supportive back but that's life.

Night Goggles and I continue to support the PM community. As for why other companies do not, I can't speak to that. Now, I need to go pull some videos from my thermal from last night and get back to editing video footage.
Posted by: old cat

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 04:00 PM

Korey just keep doing what you are doing. There will always be naysayers. I enjoy what you do, as do many others. Whatever product you do it with & talk about the results will be the same. I can only speak for my self, I buy what I like not what someone else likes. I just bought a product that had great reviews. Company had sold over 100 with no complaints. Guess what I was not satisfied with mine, it did not perform like I wanted. Just keep after them & keep me posted here on predator masters. Thanks Joey
Posted by: Kino M

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 04:45 PM

Kirsch I'm not saying nor did I say 99% of all post are you pimping for Bering or Nightgoggles, I'm saying 99% of sponsers/sales/prostaff/companies promoting on the night hunting forum is you.

I can't think of one single other company or paid guy that promotes products here and I wish they would. Competition drives products and that is beneficial to the end user. If you have a public forum and only one company is represented you pretty much have a monopoly.

Maybe its the word pimping that doesn't set well with you but for complete clarification its not meant as a derogatory verb, its just another word thats used for selling or promoting something in the year 2022. I'm absolutely sure I mentioned my post wasnt meant as a dig.

Contrary to what you may think, even though I'll never be a cheerleader for you, I do appreciate your presence and input here at the PM community. I actually complemented you in my last post but you missed that and appears you took offense. I can fully appreciate the fact that you actually use the products you are SELLING which brings me to another point.....

You continuously say you don't get a commission of sales BUT you do get PAID by Nightgoggles, period. IMO thats COMPLETELY misleading as if your not compensated at all for every time you promote Bering and Nightgoggles. Your not answering questions about Bering and pulsar and then referring people to Nightgoggles out of the kindness of your heart. Paycheck, commission, bonus, consulting, testing, however you want to paint it you ARE financially compensated by NG, period. You ADMITTED that in your nasty gram you sent me for not buying my Yoter from Nightgoggles. That nasty gram from you and is EXACTLY WHY I will NEVER DO BUSINESS with Nightgoggles or anyone you "represent".


This is exactly why I would love to see more vendors and different companies represented here.
Posted by: Kirsch

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Kino M
Kirsch I'm not saying nor did I say 99% of all post are you pimping for Bering or Nightgoggles, I'm saying 99% of sponsers/sales/prostaff/companies promoting on the night hunting forum is you.
Actually, I copied your exact words and you did write it. You could very well of meant the other meaning, but you did write that. I don't post what I do on this forum or do what I do because of a paycheck. You can believe me or not, but that is the truth. Let's get back to talking about coyote hunting.
Posted by: Pa. Mick

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 07:01 PM

We all know this equipment has many different issues no matter the manufacturer. This forum has been a great place to share & gather information so we can make hopefully an educated decision on where to spend our money.

Korey I appreciate your posts ! Fantastic you sharing your accumulated knowledge that many of us can learn from as do many members ! I see you also share on other forums too !! Thank you !

I would also like to see other dealers share on here ! WHY DONíT THEY ???

My freedom of speech gets censured even in a private PM if I want to discuss Torry Cooks business. WHY IS THAT ???
I can think of a couple more that arenít on here anymore.

I think drawing more members in would be good for all of us ! Attacking folks drive them away !

Enough said as far as Iím concerned !!! Happy hunting !!
Posted by: Toro

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/12/22 10:56 PM

That catches my attention. Your pmís are sensored mick? That shouldnít be. Iíd like to hear more about that if care to share.
Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/13/22 02:41 AM

All I've seen Kirsch do here is share information and try to help. He's been an ambassador for our sport and to suggest he's motivated by financial gain isn't correct. He simply shares his vast experience to help our community and is transparent about his affiliations. These affiliations allow him to gain more experience with the equipment we use and provide suggestions on improving it. This helps fellow hunters make more informed purchases and have products available that suit us better. Win/Win.

For anyone interested, I purchased an NVision Halo XRF this fall (NOT from Night Googles). The Halo broke and I was without a scope during season opener and my year's vacation. What does Kirsch do? Say I should have gotten a Bering Optics or did business with Night Googles? Nope. He goes out of his way and offers to borrow me a scope.

I get the point there is little representation here from other pro staff/companies but saying Kirsch is pimping here couldn't be further off.
Posted by: Ksracer

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/13/22 10:43 AM

I'll second P&Y. Kirsch offered input on my XRF cluster****, and has given me plenty of help with my Yoter-C. Neither of which were bought from Night Goggles. I've never seen him say Bering scopes were perfect either. His info seems pretty un-biased to me.
Posted by: lockrotor

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/13/22 10:55 AM

I total agree with what P&Y said. Kirsch has been a great source of knowledge and help for all of us on this site. It would be nice if Skinney or Skypup would chime in and say if they have ever had POS problems on any of their night vision equipment, they have seen alot more equipment, from bottom end to the top end compared to most hunters.
Posted by: G Anderson

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/13/22 10:58 AM

I think we all have been able to determine who the "self-aggrandizing" person has been in not only this thread but a few others. Not hard to figure out and it is best to not feed these types of "trolls"...they seldom add anything worthwhile but always seem to "challenge" those that do. Ignore them and they will eventually go elsewhere to find the attention that they desire/seek so much.

Here's to hoping this thread gets back to the original topic and V223 can eventually give us a final update on what Bering ultimately does.
Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/13/22 11:27 AM

Pardon the interjection and back to V223.
Hoping he is ultimately satisfied and whatever he ends up with has video capability so we can keep enjoying his hunts!
Posted by: jmeddy

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/15/22 04:08 PM

Mick, p&y, and lockrotor. I couldnít agree more with your comments.
Korey is a professor for all of us.
NOT HIS FAULT NO OTHER MANUFACTURERS HAVE A PRESENCE HERE.
Posted by: SlickerThanSnot

Re: Super yoter issues - 02/15/22 08:28 PM

Quote:

Korey is a professor for all of us.
NOT HIS FAULT NO OTHER MANUFACTURERS HAVE A PRESENCE HERE.


just look at kirsch's picture. he looks mean. like crazy mean. like he would tear yer head off and spit down your throat mean.

i can certainly see why all the other manufacturers are afraid to post here.


smile
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 03/15/22 10:55 AM

Quick update .......

Bering has done nothing in over a month.

I contacted them again yesterday and the same tech assured me that the dealer would hear from them no later than tomorrow which is now today.

You draw your own conclusion about them, I've drawn mine. I don't expect the dealer to get a call today.

Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 03/15/22 10:25 PM

No call .... Imagine that.
Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 03/16/22 03:58 AM

Bad deal man. Just a bad deal.
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 03/18/22 11:25 PM

I've been on a one text and then wait a day for a response process with a Bering employee regarding my debacle. I've not see anything like this since the hogs ate the neighbor. Talk about can't get there from here......

Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 03/21/22 05:50 PM

I finally got a text confirming Bering wants the dealer to refund me and that the will refund him.
Posted by: Pro_hunt

Re: Super yoter issues - 03/22/22 02:46 AM

Good that you finally get to put the whole thing to rest. Too bad you had all the trouble you did.
Posted by: P&Y

Re: Super yoter issues - 03/23/22 05:12 AM

Glad it will finally be over with for you!
Posted by: Ksracer

Re: Super yoter issues - 04/18/22 11:39 PM

I'ce been trying to get what seems like a simple issue resolved with my Yoter-C also. It makes everything 10x harder than it needs to be when a company sporadically answers the phone, won't return a voicemail, and waits days or weeks to respond to an email.
Posted by: Predator passion

Re: Super yoter issues - 06/07/22 09:07 PM

Any updates on your yoter?
Posted by: varminter .223

Re: Super yoter issues - 06/09/22 09:25 AM

I returned mine to the dealer for a full refund. Then the dealer had a fiasco getting Bering to figure out what he was returning.