ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES?????

Posted by: coyote buster

ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 02/28/03 07:38 PM

HEY, GUYS JUST WONDERING IF THERE WAS ANY OTHER PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT CHASE COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES ITS GREAT FUN AND CAN BE VERY PRODUCTIVE OUR BEST DAY IS 19.
Posted by: varminter185

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 02/28/03 08:25 PM

Posted by: Alaskan Wolfer

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 02/28/03 08:39 PM

I don't know about Wyoming, but here in Alaska chasing animals is one of those thing that will end you up in the pokey!
Posted by: mikegranger

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 02/28/03 09:27 PM

I've said it before, but in Montana aint no way illegal to kill a coyote except with poison! Back in the high priced fur days, many folks around here paid for snowgo's with their coyote money. I don't like it but it is still done to some degree.
Posted by: Redfrog

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 02/28/03 09:45 PM

It's illegal in Alberta.
Posted by: Alaskan Critter

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 02/28/03 11:57 PM

One may do as he pleases,but it just don`t seem ethical to me. I my self, still need my first kill, but I`m not that desperate.
Posted by: Tommytsled

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/01/03 07:28 PM

From the New York State DEC website:

S 11-0901. Prohibitions.
1. No person while in or on a motor vehicle, as defined in section
11-0931 of this chapter, shall take wildlife other than migratory game
birds, or use any lights on any such vehicle for such purpose.
Posted by: coyote buster

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/01/03 08:15 PM

HEY GUYS I DIDNT MEAN TO PISS ANYONE OFF BUT IT IS LEGAL IN WYOMING AND THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THE AREA THAT DO IT IT IS VERY ETHICAL BECAUSE THEY CAN RUN LIKE HELL. SO THINK WHAT YOU WANT TO THINK.
Posted by: Alaskan Critter

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 01:01 AM

You didn`t make me mad at all and I for one don`t want to ruffle feathers either. If I had that meny yotes in my area it sure would be fun hunting. How meny do you shoot down there? I hunted Montana last year at Christmas and called one in but missed it.
Posted by: varminter185

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 06:11 AM

coyote buster,
i remove my previous post good luck with the snowmobiles...i didn't know it was legal
Posted by: gunner randy

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 03:01 PM

Do you guys put fence cutters on the front of your sleds like somebody told me ?
Posted by: WVU69Josh

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 03:03 PM

That dosn't sound like much of hunt to me. :rolleyes:
Posted by: Snowbound

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 03:24 PM

That sure as heck aint how we hunt around here. Heck if we see sled tracks in the stand most of the time we dont even waste our time calling there. I just dont see the sport in sledding down dogs. I give that idea 2 thumbs down.
Posted by: Bob/SoCal

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 04:26 PM

Hunting coyotes by running them down with a snowmobile, motorcycle, truck, ATV, or anything else for that matter may be legal in your state, but here on Predator Masters it is frowned upon. Why you ask? Ethics are ethics, we prescribe to those that respect the animal we hunt, whether it be coyote, fox or bobcat. Running them down is cruel. We hunt them here, either by the use of electronic call or hand calls, some of us even use dogs, which is a time honored tradition for many of our members.

The use of a gas powered vehicle to "run" the animal down is for many of us an abhorrent method of treating an animal. Some argue that dead is dead, hunting is cruel in itself...well, you would'nt be here if you prescribed to that line of thought. But as Predator Hunters, many of us follow a set of ethics, that being respect the animal for what it is, a wild and adaptable creature worth every bit of respect we can gather. Running them down with vehicles is not one of them. We here at Predator Masters DO NOT condone such behavior. We will edit, close, delete, kill, dismemeber and cyberly destroy any mention of such. That is our right.
Posted by: coyote buster

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 07:56 PM

HEY THERE GUYS I DONT SEE WHAT THE BIG DEAL IS ABOUT POSTING IT ON PM BUT TO U THAT HAD ?'S WE KILL ABOUT ANYWHERE BETWEEN 50-100 COYOTES A YEAR AND THAT IS JUST MESSING AROUND ON THE RANCH FOR THE LIVESTOCKS SAKE WE COULD PRY KILL EAVEN AN OTHER 100 A YEAR THE BEST WE'VE EVER DONE IN ONE YEAR WAS 499 AND NO WE DON'T CARRY FENCE CUTTERS ON THE SLEDS WE CAN GO TO A GATE OR PICK THE FENCE UP AND GO UNDER IT.
Posted by: SteveM

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 10:04 PM

I like to run up beside them and harpoon'em with my Cold Steel Spear!!! No sport in just runnin'em over with a snowmachine!!!
Posted by: Bob/SoCal

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 11:15 PM

WYOMING STATUTES
TITLE 6. Crimes and Offenses
CHAPTER 3. Offenses Against Property
ARTICLE 2. Property Destruction and Defacement

6-3-203 Cruelty to animals; penalties; limitation on manner of destruction.
(a) A person commits cruelty to animals if he knowingly and with intent to cause death, injury or undue suffering:
(i) Overrides, drives when overloaded, tortures or torments an animal or deprives an animal of necessary sustenance; or
(ii) Unnecessarily or cruelly beats, injures, mutilates or kills an animal; or
(iii) Carries an animal in a manner that poses undue risk of injury or
death.

From the Wyoming ORV Law Handbook

It is unlawful to molest, stir up, rally or drive in any manner, any game animals or game birds with a motorized vehicle.

If you want to argue that the coyote is not a game animal, fine, I'll turn your unethical arse in as cruelty to animals.
Posted by: SteveM

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/02/03 11:24 PM

Bob,
Does this mean harpoon'em is out too???
Posted by: Coyote-Hunter

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/03/03 03:46 AM

499 coyotes in one year?! Wow!
Posted by: Coyote killer

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/03/03 06:15 AM

A coyote is not considered a game animal in Wyoming. So the law of not chasing game animals with a motor vehicle doesn't apply. Many people out west use snow machines to control coyote populations, it isn't a big deal. What's the difference between that and goverment trappers hunting them from airplanes? I don't think turning somebody in for cruelty to animals because they were hunting coyotes with snowmobiles would fly in Wyoming. Porbably get some get some good laughs though . I respect the coyote as one of the most intelligent animals. They are my favorite animal but they need to be controlled, for the good of other wildlife and to protect ranchers livestock.

Coyote buster what's up with the all caps messages? All caps is considered yelling on the web.
Posted by: coyote buster

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/03/03 09:38 PM

Hey coyote killer thanks for the support about the snowmobile hunting deal. I didn't know that all caps ment that i was yelling thanks.
Posted by: coyote buster

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/03/03 09:43 PM

Hey stevem we run up on them and shoot them with a shotgun. Is it hard to harpoon them?
Posted by: Alaskan-Woodsmen

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 12:11 AM

Hi Buster

sounds more like predator control. Do you pelt them out?

AK Wdsmn
Posted by: low dog 1

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 10:31 AM

Man you guys oughta be puttin up that fur, Heavy westerns are way up this year! $30-$60. check the N.A.F.A feb sell report.
Posted by: Silverfox

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 03:19 PM

coyote buster--when you say, we run up on them and shoot them with a shotgun. do you mean you run the snowmobile track on top of them to hold them down and then shotgun them? If you do that, why waste the shotgun shell? Why don't you take a baseball bat and bean them???

Snowmobiling coyotes is not my style. I realize it is legal and all where you are, but I would much rather call them in.
Posted by: nd coyote killer

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 07:17 PM

If they need to be controlled for lixestock and other animals sake then why don't you go head to head with them and see who comes out on top. In my books running them down with sleds takes all the sport out of it. If your doing it just to keep the population down then let someone come in and call them! I have seen people try to chase a fox before and i would put my calling abilities and a partners for the day up against two sleds any time of the year, as far as "controlling" them
Just my two cents, someone took chase to a coyote that was coming to my call one time and if i would have caught the SOB i would have put a 22-250 shell right threw the engine on that pretty little maching of his.
Posted by: nd coyote killer

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 07:19 PM

ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES thats not hunting that is just killing.
Posted by: coyote buster

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 07:44 PM

Hey guys when i say we run up on them i mean that we run up behind them or be side them not on top of them!!!!! Whoever it was that said that they watched a person chase a fox that isnt like chasing a coyote foxes duck and dive alot more than coyotes. Yes we are skining and selling the furs we don't just hunt from the machines we trap and call and also the snowmobiling must just be a young mans thing i'm only 16 my dad would rather call one in. Whoever it was that said that it wasn't a hunt thats not true it is a hunt it isn't as easy as it sounds. We have to hunt alot to control them on tha ranch it's 100,000 acers. we run 1000 head of cows and 800 head of sheep so we have to keep them trimed down a bit.
Posted by: Silverfox

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 07:46 PM

nd coyote killer--come on don't hold back, let loose and go ahead and tell us how you really feel about running down those coyotes with a snowmobile!!!

How have you been doing in the coyote calling contests? I suppose you are studying hard for your mid-term tests now???? Good luck.
Posted by: Snowbound

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 07:58 PM

I'm very confident you dont want to get NDKC started on people snowmobiling coyotes down. I was with one time when we spotted a fox only to see it being chased by some jerk on a 4 wheeler. He was upset! Oh yeah, chasing them on snowmobiles isnt sport, i dont care how hard it is. Go buy some calls and learn some tips from the guys on the board about how to call them in. You might find out that its 20 times more fun than the idea you are using right now.
Posted by: nd coyote killer

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 09:11 PM

Silverfox the tournaments went alright this year no wins but some decent payouts. Studing for midterms is correct Got out on sunday around here and smacked three all of them were paired up. The weekend of the March 15 i will be out closer to your area had a rancher call me and ask for some help before calving season goes into full blast. He has had some problems in the past. Then that will be it for me.
I agree with Snowbound you don't want to get me started on snowmobiling coyotes i'll just keep it civil.
Posted by: SteveM

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/04/03 10:50 PM

Tougher than a whale!! Lots smaller and quicker!!
Posted by: Michael J. McCasland

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 09:44 AM

Out of respect for the moderators of this forum and the responders to the subject matter I respectfully pull my previous comments. I very possibly went way over board on this issue ..............
Posted by: Snowbound

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 10:04 AM

It would be a sad day if I saw a drunk 16 year old and his buddies snowmobiling coyotes!
Posted by: Trapper_1977

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 02:18 PM

Michael, agree or not with the sno go and the coyote deal is one thing. I for one would have to see the ranchers situation before makeing judgement. But to assume they are drunk and all is IMO just wrong. I wonder if any of us were ever 16. To far back for me to remember. Not trying to tick anyone off but if they are not breaking the law, and not wasteing the fur and there is a predator problem then judgement is not mime to pass.

God Bless America
Trapper_1977

PS: I heard at the trappers meeting last night that WY just opened/or will soon a wolf season.
Posted by: Michael J. McCasland

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 03:42 PM

Out of respect for the moderators of this forum and the responders to the subject matter I respectfully pull my previous comments. I very possibly went way over board on this issue ..............
Posted by: James Lindley

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 05:15 PM

Michael J McCasland. What you just did takes a hell of a lot of character for one to do. You show a great deal of respect for this site as well as the people that come here. My hat is off to you buddy..

Something that you guys need to know about Michael. He is one dedicated sportsman. He is also a fine gentleman. This subject does strike a nerve with him just as each of us have nerves that get struck about other "things". We call them "Pet Peaves". He is very interested in the integrity of the board and the image that we set forth to the all seeing public eye as well as beginners and newbies as to the subjects we talk about.

This particular subject is to say the least extremeley controversial. It has been approached in other forums and got extremely heated and even resulted in some lashing out from member to member.

Please take the time to consider this and let's try to put this thing to sleep for the good of the board as well as our image. .... Thanks>>>>. James L.
Posted by: Redfrog

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 06:13 PM

I have to echo what James Lindley says. I have a great deal of respect for Michael, his ethics and his efforts to promote predator hunting.

This subject always generates a lot of emotional posting. Different methods are legal, accepted and used in different places.

We at PM try to promote predator hunting through, legal, and ethical, means with the concept of fair chase. Our quarry should be given the respect any game animal is given.

Unfortunately the coyote enjoys dual status. He is a worthy and challenging game animal who earns our respect everytime we hunt., by beating us or by presenting us with a real challenge. On that basis we give the coyote his due.

He is also a predator and sometimes his activities conflict with ranchers,pet owners etc. Then he is a pest that needs to be eradicated.

Let's not confuse these two things. The methods of dealing with a pest have nothing to do with hunting or fair chase.

This board is about hunting. We come here to learn and to share our successes and failures. If we are to continue our interest,we had better try to show each other a better way to hunt instead of just running the other guy down. We have people outside our circle doing that full time,
every day.

So Coyote Buster,someone suggested getting off the sled and calling. It's good advice and a lot of fun.

You've told us you're sled is faster than a coyote,now show us you can outsmart him.
Posted by: coyote buster

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 07:43 PM

Hey guys sorry that i caused such a ruckas about the snowmobiling deal. I would like you all to know that we are never drunk when we chase them with sleds though. I already do a great deal of calling but when i amfeeling wild i drag out the sleds so like i said sorry about causeing problems and i dont want to bash heads with anyone else over this ok.
Posted by: Redfrog

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 08:03 PM

Posted by: mikegranger

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 09:32 PM

Well said Redfrog. I can't think of wild animal I respect more than the coyote, but I also am a realist and know they wreak a terrible toll on livestock in the right situation. Many state legislatures have agreed to allow harvesting or killing (however you want to say it) coyotes by many different means. I will not ostricize an individual for pursuing and taking an animal in a legal manner. I may not agree with it but that is the freedom we have in this country.
Posted by: Robert Cobb

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/05/03 11:50 PM

I still think it's unethical to run down a coyote on a snowmachine, truck, motorcycle 4 wheeler or any other vehicle. Just because it's legal doesn't mean its ethical!!

And yes, the laws do still apply for animal cruelty, it doesn't matter what species the animal is or where you are, if it constitutes animal cruelty then it IS animal cruelty. I am surprised at some of the comments on this... Who'd of thought???

Posted by: Q-Wagoner

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 02:54 AM

As most of you know I usually keep my mouth shut on these issues and am not one to be out spoken about my beliefs. I would also never want to ruffle anyone’s fathers. As a matter of fact I found that it is much easer to get along if I were amoral. That being said I just couldn’t help my self. Please accept my deepest apologies for what I am about to do but somebody has to say it.

Well let’s just start here.

MI VHNTR

[QUOTE]I just shoot any coyote, anytime that I get a chance. As a matter of fact, everyone else here does the same thing.[/QUOTE]coyotekrazy

[QUOTE]A Coyote Poem....

I shoot yotes so they will die,
If I can, I shoot them in the eye,
Sometimes I shoot them in the grass,
Sometimes I shoot them in the @$$,

They spin and swirl and jump around,
But sometimes they just hit the ground,
I call them in with screams of terror,
sounding like a dying hare (or)....

Maybe I’ll sit still you see,
Looking like a bush or tree,
Then thinking they’ve just found a meal,
They’re last thought is, “Hey! what’s the deal?”

They’re brains are spewn among the brush,
The purpose? Just for me a rush,
I don’t care if they’re hide is mange,
I leave them rotting on the range,

Back to nature, the way they should,
But not the ears, they’re too good,
Those things can be turned into cash,
In my freezer there’s a stash,

When the price is right I’ll cash them out,
Stuff my wallet without a doubt,
Hope I’ll find the biggest bounty,
Searching for a generous county,

When greenies cry about motherless pups,
Fear not, we’ll shoot them too,
It don’t rhyme, but hey...
It’s what we do.[/QUOTE]redrider

[QUOTE] Why should I give a murdering coyote a break? I go to save rabbits, quail, pheasant, deer, elk and any other prey species that I might want to hunt. They do no good deeds and they are in direct competition with me and my hunting succes.

I would also like to say if indeed it is war on coyotes then a wet bitch is better to me. I show no mercy to them or there soon to be murdering pups. I say if you do in a whole pack with one bullet its all the better for the other critters in the neiborhood.

I only feel like this towards coyotes.[/QUOTE]After all of this bright and intellectual commentary only a few days ago I read this today.

Bob/SoCal

[QUOTE] Hunting coyotes by running them down with a snowmobile, motorcycle, truck, ATV, or anything else for that matter may be legal in your state, but here on Predator Masters it is frowned upon. Why you ask? Ethics are ethics, we prescribe to those that respect the animal we hunt, whether it be coyote, fox or bobcat. Running them down is cruel.[/QUOTE]LMFAO Sense when did PM give a flying….. I mean give a hoot about ethics. If that were even remotely true you moderators were asleep at the wheel when the above comments were made. LOL That is too funny. Bob, "buddy," I am glad that you said it and not me. I would have been burned at the stake for “Preaching” and trying to force my home grown morals upon others.

James Lindley

[QUOTE]Something that you guys need to know about Michael. He is one dedicated sportsman. He is also a fine gentleman. This subject does strike a nerve with him just as each of us have nerves that get struck about other "things". We call them "Pet Peaves". He is very interested in the integrity of the board and the image that we set forth to the all seeing public eye as well as beginners and newbies as to the subjects we talk about.[/QUOTE]I missed out on his original posts but all I can say is I am damn sure glad someone is interested in the “all seeing public eye” but where does being interested get us? We can’t very well stop what is legal can we? This being an open forum we can’t stop people from bragging about activities that are highly controversial can we? Every time someone speaks up about something that IS controversial pertaining to ethics we get a slurry of knuckle dragging chest beaters infuriated at the fact that someone might think that a particular activity is WRONG and/or shall I say “unbecoming of a sportsman.” It reminds me of the bra-burning feminazis of the sixties. They are so outspoken about their “rights” that they over look our “image.” Personally I don’t care what they think or do. I do care about what they make predator hunters out to be. REAL “hunters” not killers.

Redfrog

[QUOTE]We at PM try to promote predator hunting through, legal, and ethical, means with the concept of fair chase. Our quarry should be given the respect any game animal is given.[/QUOTE]“Through legal and ethical means.” I am not pretending to be stupid but what the hell does that mean? If it is “legal” then who is to argue whether it is ethical or not. The only thing that may even possibly be considered unethical is if you break the law. If you break the law you are unethical aren’t you?

It is a damn shame that we don’t know the difference between right and wrong and what is ethical and what is not. I once said, [QUOTE]“Making moral decisions about hunting is not up to us. Our morals are our Laws silly. if it is legal then it is moral and if it is illegal then it is immoral. The government decides for us what is moral or not. That burden should never fall on out shoulders?”[/QUOTE]At the time I wrote that I was being sarcastic but the more I think about it the more I think it is the truest thing I have ever written.

It is very hard to argue a point when they are arguing apples and we are arguing oranges. Here is a shining example.

Jack Roberts whom I would expect more from said this.

[QUOTE] A couple people who adamately condemn, out of fur season, hunting coyotes, have no problem accepting government money to do it out of fur season. The two most vocal opponents of, out of fur season hunting, that I know of, both do it gladly for government money.

They do not practice what they preach, why should we?[/QUOTE]Where the hell did that come from? Where did John Henry ever and I mean ever say it was not ok to hunt coyotes out of season if it was for ADC work? When did the government start paying him to shoot coyotes if there was not an actual problem? He does adamantly practice what he preaches and if he doesn’t I have never seen any proof of it.

I have been accused of redundancy but it is not out of ignorance. It is done simply in an attempt to make my stance clear. I can’t seem to do that. I will try again. I think that it is WRONG to hunt coyotes during puping season as well as running them with sleds, UNLESS it is for a valid damage complaint. I am with redfrog when he said, “Our quarry should be given the respect any game animal is given” “This means coyotes.” I am very much in agreement with Michael J. McCasland if he truly is “very interested in the integrity of the board and the image that we set forth to the all seeing public eye as well as beginners and newbies as to the subjects we talk about.”

Here is another quote that bothers me from drscott.

[QUOTE]I believe the root to this hole discussion is fur prices are starting to creep up and trappers and shooters in it for fur don't want their next years population to be decreased any. goes back to what makes some people tick it seems... greed. Just my 2 cents worth.[/QUOTE]Greed? You want to talk about greed? Your side seams to think that the only good coyote is a dead coyote because as Redrider says it “They do no good deeds and they are in direct competition with me and my hunting success.” It sounds to me like you people want them dead because you want all the other game that the coyote MIGHT be taking from you for your self and to hell with the people that want the coyotes right? You shooting one extra pheasant a year is more important to you than the welfare of a whole den of coyote pups. For the price of one of those coyote pups this year I could buy 5 chickens that would taste better than a damn pheasant!!

If anybody is greedy it is you. I have no problem with competition if it is done during regular hunting season. I would imagine you would be upset if I was shooting your local pheasant population out of season wouldn’t you? You would be equally enraged if I just left them there to rot? Well that’s what we fur hunters and trappers think of you when you kill and waste an animal that is valuable to us. The problem is that it is illegal to kill pheasants out of season. There are also salvage laws on the birds prohibiting them from being left to rot. We fur hunters and trappers do not have the luxury of laws for the most part to protect our interests and from the sounds of it you people don’t even have the common courtesy to look out for those of us that do.

Everyone seams to think that they are over run with coyotes and that they NEED to be controlled. Coyotes are everywhere they are in plague proportions they are eating everything. They are bloodthirsty killers. They are this they are that. It is for the most part a bunch of crap. I must live in a bubble because I see nothing that would lead me to believe any of this. We have tons of pheasants and deer and other wildlife. We also have a ton of coyotes. I shoot a ton of coyotes every year. If coyotes were such a problem in other areas then why are people not getting as good or better kills on them than I am? Maybe it is because it is a figment of their imagination.

No one has EVER said that if you shoot coyotes in the summer that they will endanger the species or that by killing a handful here and their will have any affect on the overall population, to the contrary. Coyotes are not going away now or ever with the use of conventional means. Population densities are localized, that is a given. It is also a nice little clause to hide behind when you get cornered. In “MY” area we are getting ate out of house and home. It may or may not be true but I am confidant that it is widely overstated that coyotes are killing all of the other game that you hunt.

This is a predator hunting board. I was under the impression that we were looking out for the best interests of predator hunters. I would like to see us do that. Truly I would. How can we though? Every one here seams to hate John Henry with a passion that runs to the bone. John is very militant about his views and they are reflected by the way he runs his board. He has rules and if you don’t fallow them you will get booted plain and simple. It would go against every thing that freedom of the press stood for if we would enforce rules in a manner that John does on this comertial site so how do we deal with the public eye? That is the question that should be very important to all of us.

In no way do I want to fallow Johns foot steps. I am totally against censorship in any way but I propose this. When the subject of killing coyotes comes up and people start taking pleasure in the fact that they like to leave them rot or that they like to run them over with snow machines and trucks and ATVs or they step over the line in any other way perhaps the moderaters should send them a curtisy letter.

An example that would come to mind would go like this. When Coyotekrazy wrote his poem I would think a letter like this would be appropriate.

Hello coyotkrazy, I saw your post today in the Members club house and found it quite interesting. I understand and respect your position concerning hunting coyotes in the summertime but we would also like you to be a little more sensitive to the younger members of the board as well as to all of the soccer moms that may be dropping in to see what predator hunting is all about. Because PM is in the public’s eye we would only ask that you show a little more discretion in your posts. As you know hunting is a privilege to most of us and not a right. We at Predator masters would like to keep our beloved sport in the best light possible. I think you understand and respect our position on the matter. If we all do a little together we can do a lot.

Thank you for your cooperation on this matter and I hope to see more of your post in the future!!

Yours in sport.

PM moderaters.

I think that we can curb a lot of questionable behavior by a nice little courtesy note. I don’t think coyotkrazy would be offended by it at all. It would not be censorship at all it would just be a diplomatic and appropriate way to help up hold the image of predator hunters as “sportsmen” not selfish killers.

I am no angle that is for sure. I have posted things that I regret and I have deleted things that I have said. I once told of shooting a coyote with my 50 BMG that a friend of mine caught around his calving lot. If I could find it in the archives I would delete it because it was inappropriate “to do” for one and more so to talk about on a public forum. I was also reminded that it wasn’t cool to post my some of my seasons takes of fur on a public forum so I took them down with no regrets. Every one needs a few checks and balances once in a while including me. When I am wrong I will admit it. Sometimes it takes a while to get it through my thick skull but I will usually come around. That being said do you think that it would be out of line to try and curb a little of the going-ons around here when subjects like running coyotes and other sensitive issues come up? It sure aint much but it would be a nice gesture.

Well I will now step down off of my soapbox and pass it on. I am sure by now I have made it to the top of someone’s “PEOPLE TOO KILL” list. LOL so I will retire my thoughts for a moment. You might think that I have reached well beyond the scope of the original post and you very well may be right but to me it is all one, ethics, morals, values, image and courtesy. They should all be addressed.

Nothing personal, just politics.

Good hunting.

Q,
Posted by: Maineiac

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 05:07 AM

Well said Q. There are a lot of poeple that share your view point, Q. I for one am glad you voiced your view point. We definatley need to watch what each one of us posts, who knows who reads them.
Posted by: MI VHNTR

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 09:36 AM

Q-Wagoner says: "I would also never want to ruffle anyone’s fathers. As a matter of fact I found that it is much easer to get along if I were amoral. That being said I just couldn’t help my self. Please accept my deepest apologies for what I am about to do but somebody has to say it.

Well let’s just start here."

MI VHNTR

quote:
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I just shoot any coyote, anytime that I get a chance. As a matter of fact, everyone else here does the same thing.
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Q-Wagoner then says: "After all of this bright and intellectual commentary only a few days ago I read this today."
**************************************************
After more regurgitated rhetoric, we get the closing statement: "You might think that I have reached well beyond the scope of the original post and you very well may be right but to me it is all one, ethics, morals, values, image and courtesy. They should all be addressed.

Nothing personal, just politics."
**************************************************

I DO NOT accept any "apology" for your pseudo-intellectual and sarcastic comments. You start with a half-hearted attempt at an "apology", then proceed to make disparaging comments about people that don't agree with your "politics", calling other people's views "bright and intellectual commentary". You sound very condescending, to say the least. Further, because someone doesn't blindly follow your biased and slanted views, you proceed to tell US how to correct our errant ways, while you blindly stagger along, spewing your "gospel of truth." We need to be corrected, while YOU can say/do whatever YOU want? I don't care too much for that type of pompous, arrogant attitude. Speaking of attitude, it's pretty apparent where your loyalties lie, no doubt about that either. Another thing, your "courtesy and image" bit, is laughable at best.
I am a predator hunter. This makes me "politically incorrect" in many places, even at a "predator hunting board" that determines when people can hunt. Rest assured, I don't care who likes it, nor do I care who dislikes it. I will apologise to noone for it either. Since I do not want to start a war of words here, you can email me if you want to continue your diatribe. Rest assured, you will not win. MI VHNTR
Posted by: low dog 1

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 09:47 AM

You hit the nail on the head Q! and your example about the pheasants is what we fur hunters are talking about. Question? How many coyotes did those boys kill on their Wendover hunt? just what i figured, 0 . maybe one of them could write a poem about that!
Posted by: Snowbound

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 10:24 AM

From Q:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Making moral decisions about hunting is not up to us. Our morals are our Laws silly. if it is legal then it is moral and if it is illegal then it is immoral. The government decides for us what is moral or not. That burden should never fall on out shoulders?”

I think you may be a bit mistaken in "the truest thing you have ever said." The burden to decide what is moral is on our shoulders. It is the common citizen that writes his congressmen to change the law. It is our burden to recognize the unethicalness and try to do something about it. In the end it is the government that decides what is moral or not, but it is up to us to pave the road that leads them to that decision.
Posted by: Stu Farish

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 10:41 AM

The law sets the parameters of what you can and cannot get away with, with no fear of legal repurcussion.

Ethics comes down to doing what's right, even when it may be legal to do otherwise.

The law is not morality, and morality is not necessarily the law.

Once, slavery was legal, practised and accepted by citizens at the time. That did not make it moral or ethical, just legal.

An example more relevant to hunting ethics: At one time 100 years or more ago in America it was a legal, accepted practise to use lanterns and canoes or boats to go out and jack deer at night. Considered great sport. Now it isn't tolerated anywhere that I know of.

Somehow, with a lot of us, using a motorized vehicle to chase down game violates every concept of fair chase ethics we've practised our entire lives, even if there may be certain exceptions that cause it to be legally allowed in some places. Snowmobile, ATV, truck, etc.

Vehicles are often used for predator control. I think they're pretty rarely used by recreational hunters. PM isn't a board dealing with professional predator control methods.

Q- So what's you point? That we at PM aren't always 100% consistant, running this site in accordance with your view of utopian perfection? If so, I for one will plead "guilty as charged". Being human, we're doing the best we can with what we have. There will likely be bumps in the ride, so hang on and enjoy it as much as you can
Posted by: Q-Wagoner

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 01:34 PM

MI VHNTR, I am not looking to start a war of words and if you knew half as much as you thought you did you would know I wasn’t apologizing. It is called sarcasm VHNTR.

“Another thing, your "courtesy and image" bit, is laughable at best.” What the hell does that mean? You might not care “obviously” what others might think but as long as you people spew your trash talk about coyotes and what coyote hunting is all about I will pass on a few of my own ideas and if you don’t like it. BOOO HOOO Get use to it. When you start showing the coyotes that you hunt and those whom disagree with YOU a little respect then you shouldn’t expect any in return.

In 78 and 79 when coyote prices went through the roof we had a lot of people chasing them down with sleds and pickups. It was hard to get access in those days around here because that is what people thought coyote hunting was all about and they didn’t want people tearing around their pastures. Back east there are “group” hunters that circle sections and run down and shoot coyotes from county roads. Many because of their methods and activities hate them. I for one do not want a bad reputation because of what some might think coyote hunting is all about.

I am not TELLING anyone to do anything. I am just suggesting an idea that might stop a lot of unneeded controversy and hard feelings. The way I look at it is we can be amoral and let everything slide which would be the easiest or we could steer PM in a new direction that would uphold our common interests.

Deer and elk foundations respect there chosen quarry and promote fair chase. Do they respect and promote fair chase because they have no choice because the law requires them to? I don’t think so. I think that they do it because in their heart they think it is the right thing to do.

Deer and elk NEED to be controlled too. If controlling the numbers were the only objective there would be no such thing as fair chase, ethical means or salvage laws. The state would just set a quota and when it is reached they would shut an area down or they would work them over with a plain or chopper.

In Nebraska coons are listed as a fur-bearing animal. We probably have more coons than any other state except for Iowa. Wyoming has a small fraction of the coons that NE does yet they are listed as a predator and can be killed at any time of the year. There are still a lot of coons in Wyoming no matter what the season says. We could easily get by with out a season in Nebraska but we have one anyway and that is basically for ethical reasons. The season is set around the prime fur season. Any season that has a “closed” season is set around the birthing time of year. Coyotes in every state have no chance of being shot out yet some states and Canadian provinces choose to set seasons around the birthing time of year because of ethics. They know very well that they don’t need to do that to save the coyote. They are doing it to prevent pups from starving and may even do it to promote the use of its fur? Seasons will make no difference in coyote populations unless there is a closed season.

There is no debate to be had on this matter because as long as something is legal people will do it. Stu made my point. He said.

[QUOTE] Once, slavery was legal, practised and accepted by citizens at the time. That did not make it moral or ethical, just legal.

An example more relevant to hunting ethics: At one time 100 years or more ago in America it was a legal, accepted practise to use lanterns and canoes or boats to go out and jack deer at night. Considered great sport. Now it isn't tolerated anywhere that I know of.[/QUOTE]At that time of year it was believed slavery to be moral so they did it. They got a little ticked off when someone told them that it was immoral and they should stop. So much in fact that it split the country in half and war broke out.

When the market hunting was big it was considered moral and when game laws were set to curb the activity a lot of wardens came up missing.

Now at this day and age we look at both as very immoral don’t we? I think 100 years from now hunting coyotes with sleds and during the puping season will be considered immoral as well. Until the time it is illegal to do that who is to say that it is immoral or unethical? Big Brother hasn’t spoken on it yet and I promise you if it makes it to the ballot box it will loose. Convincing millions of soccer moms that it is necessary to kill mother coyotes with puppies and to run them down with snow machines is an expectable way of GENERAL population control will be a tuff boat to float.

You and I know it doesn’t work for overall population control. Unless there is a need for intensive gunning and trapping in isolated areas there is no viable argument to sugest that hunting during pupping time will have an effect on the population. It is an unnecessary practice and there are alternate means.

Coyote calling is becoming hugely popular and I would venture to say that we have more callers in the field now than at any other time in history. We can control populations by hunting to a degree but there will always be a need for ADC people to deal with problems in the off season in areas.

Whenever someone’s interests are at stake things go to hell in a hand basket. This is no exception. My interest is protecting and preserving the sport of predator calling so that my grand children’s grand children can enjoy it as much as I do. I see what you are saying as a threat to my pursuit of happiness and you see me as a threat to yours. I respect your views and as long as it is lawful you can do anything you want and we are at an impasse. I think that you respect my view that I see coyotes as a viable resource. Why is it that we can’t meet in the middle?

If coyotes had horns we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Good hunting.

Q,
Posted by: nd coyote killer

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 06:30 PM

I personally would rather shoot a coyote then many of the so called "game animals" I would rather shoot a coyote then a 140 class WT i would rather shoot a coyote then pheasants, ducks ,geese and so on. If you can't give the animal that your hunting the same rights as the other animals then put your gun away join the rest of the guys that always dream of the hunt of a lifetime and never get it done. Just because you don't have a tag to put on a coyote dosen't mean that it shouldn't get the respect of the "Antlered animals"
Posted by: MI VHNTR

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 07:53 PM

Q-Wagoner says "MI VHNTR, I am not looking to start a war of words and if you knew half as much as you thought you did you would know I wasn’t apologizing. It is called sarcasm VHNTR."

Q-Wagoner, since you obviously cannot read and/or comprehend the English language with your second grade education, I'll repeat it again for you, slowly this time too. This is from my previous post, BTW. "I DO NOT accept any "apology" for your pseudo-intellectual and sarcastic comments."
In other words, smart guy, your feeble attempt at sarcasm was noted and duly dismissed as a rudimentary attempt to be sarcastic, nothing more. Furthermore, it shows just how limited your "education" really is.
I have no more, and no less, respect for the coyote then I do for any other animal that I hunt. I do not put them in any special category, since they are a predator, nothing more. Also, I will never show any respect to someone of your ilk, since you have not earned it. This includes you and your false idol too. I find it completely hilarious that you are worried what other people think about coyote hunting because of what is said on a predator hunting board, yet YOU choose to kill these predators for money. A bit hypocritical to say the least. If you cannot comprehend this, email me and I'll put it into terms that even you can understand. MI VHNTR

P.S. I do not intend to continue to respond to your aimless rantings here. I've got too much respect for the fine, decent people on this board to do it.
Posted by: Doug

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 08:19 PM

Quint,
There you go again with that "back east" stuff. I thought we had gotten that all straightened out. Invite me out for a hunt sometime and you will see that not all eastern boys are the same.
Doug
Posted by: Rich Cronk

Re: ANYONE HUNT COYOTES WITH SNOWMOBILES????? - 03/06/03 09:16 PM

Guys,
I don't get over here as much as I should. I'm sorry that I allowed things to get out of hand like this. I try not to force my own idea of ethics onto others, but everyone who knows me will not be surprised to hear that I do not tolerate personal attacks upon members. It is time to close this thread. I am asking everyone to please cool it and get back to talking about predator hunting or other cool things in the great white north. Thank you.