should you use a coon for training???

Posted by: coyote1758

should you use a coon for training??? - 10/14/11 07:31 PM

do you guys use a coon for training?My dog is 10 mos. old and the only thing she knows what her teeth are good for is eating.She has brought back 10-15 yotes as a decoy.Is letting her chase or bit a coon a good or bad ideal.Need your thoughts.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/14/11 07:59 PM

i dont have any decoy dogs but i would have to ask why? a coon wont decoy. if you decide i would try a runt coon first... it might be more than a 10 mo old pup wants.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/14/11 10:04 PM

I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/15/11 12:34 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony


there is quiet a difference between greyhounds and decoy dogs...greyhounds kill decoy dogs decoy cool what is the benefit of letting a decoy dog chase a coon? is its job to bring it back to the gun? or just run out and shred anything you "sic" them on? or are you talking about being able to "beeper collar" it off?
Posted by: Catdawg

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/15/11 01:52 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony


I agree with Tony, your dog is young and using a Coon should only encourage your dog and if it has any game drive at all, this training should bring that drive to the forefront. You may only end up with a dog that finds Coons for you, if you hunt where Coon are around.

If you want a decoy dog only, you can use a Coon to get that drive alive and then just take the dog on stand after stand, calling Coyotes in and let it happen naturally. Most of the time Coons are not necessary for dogs that have the drive naturally.

I have trained a few decoy dogs that made real good Coyote dogs, but you wouldn't have been able to tell from the first couple stands, that I wasn't training them for ducks or who knows what?

If the dog has what it takes to be a real decoy dog, Coons are not necessary. All it will take is exposure to Coyotes and the different situations that come from many, many stands, both successful and not so.

My best decoy dogs I have ever raised spoke Coyote naturally and played the game of decoy dog very well after they had a few killed to them. They realized if they did they're part, there was a dead Coyote for them to chew on and that was all they ever needed.

Best of luck to you, but don't try and use a screwdriver to drive in a nail. Get dogs that are bred to be decoy dogs and let their natural instinct kick in.

If you are using a dog not bred for decoying, and they have what it takes. Killing Coyotes in front of them and letting them learn the game is what it takes.

Both ways can make decoy dogs, I just had a lot more luck using the tool made for the task.

Take care and whatever you do, have fun!
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/15/11 02:18 AM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony


there is quiet a difference between greyhounds and decoy dogs...greyhounds kill decoy dogs decoy cool what is the benefit of letting a decoy dog chase a coon? is its job to bring it back to the gun? or just run out and shred anything you "sic" them on? or are you talking about being able to "beeper collar" it off?


I guess I expect alot more out of my decoy dogs. I use them 12 months out of the year.

Tony
Posted by: coyote1758

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/15/11 07:25 AM

Thanks guys for the help
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/15/11 09:22 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony


there is quiet a difference between greyhounds and decoy dogs...greyhounds kill decoy dogs decoy cool what is the benefit of letting a decoy dog chase a coon? is its job to bring it back to the gun? or just run out and shred anything you "sic" them on? or are you talking about being able to "beeper collar" it off?


I guess I expect alot more out of my decoy dogs. I use them 12 months out of the year.

Tony



catdawg summed it up well, if they got it they got it. i would think (maybe i'm wrong) decoying is all bluff and intimidation.... why would a dog have to fight or bite to decoy a coyote? (i know you said in self defence)but how many do you shoot saving your decoy dogs life? tony i'm not knocking your dog ,its good that you use him 12 mo out of the year but did a coon make him the dog he is today?
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/15/11 06:29 PM

No, coons did not make Gunner. Heck, we don't even have any around here. But...my point is, don't be afraid to use other game to bring the game drive out of a young dog. I've done it for a long time and continue it in my training programs. It sounds like I expect more from my decoy dogs, than just decoying. Trail and recovery of injured is a huge part of what I expect a dog to do. Baying or holding a coyote is expected.

Tony
Posted by: coyote1758

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/15/11 07:35 PM

Thanks tony,I plan on useing my do year around.Not just for decoy work but for tracking and taking some attenion off me.Alot of the hunters on this forum use the mojo decoy and others,sam my dog is a iive distraction and it works.Plan on using her alot and the coon did get her pumped up with me sicking her on it.She will do the same with cats, cows or yotes but will ignore all of them if I tell her,That will do.Yhanks for all the help guys.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/15/11 08:38 PM

coyote1758
hunt the he!! out of her and good luck.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/17/11 09:51 AM

Coyotes don't climb trees and coon don't chase dogs.
I don't think it's too much to ask a dog to be able to trail/tree a coon and decoy a coyote. But I sure wouldn't use a 'chase' animal to teach the opposite behavior?
Posted by: Duane@ssu

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 12:30 AM

I think it depends on the "objective", if your trying to fire up a dog, I think its fine. Wouldn't be the first dog that was run on coon, or any other game for that matter, to build confidence.
Also, many "decoy dogs", are used for other jobs, a large part of the year.
Here there are so few coons, we don't have to worry about dogs hunting them, when they should be working yotes. I have used coons on occasion to "jazz" a slow starting pup.
I can't say its the best idea, but it dam sure ain't the worst.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 09:14 AM

Their is a benefit to utilizing coons and decoy dogs/tollers. Association.

Coons respond so readily to calls that in no time a dog begins to associate the whole set-up from loading up in the truck to setting up for a calling sequence as impending action. Think about it like this ....would you work a young pointer or spaniel in a field that wasn't holding birds ? Of course not. A bird dog needs birds. Conversely, a fur dog needs fur.

When I load up my Airedales, I want them to expect action. Coons help provide that "rush" that keeps them wanting more .
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 09:55 AM

In addition, you wouldn't work a young pointer or spaniel on rooster pheasant. You'd start them on pigeons and quail. Same goes for young coyote dog pups. Dogs get excited and learn from action.

Tony
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 10:01 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
In addition, you wouldn't work a young pointer or spaniel on rooster pheasant. You'd start them on pigeons and quail. Same goes for young coyote dog pups. Dogs get excited and learn from action.

Tony


Exactly...and if nothing else they got to give chase and put it up a tree. They got to lay eyes on the prize !! That's exciting stuff for a young dog ! That's a dog that'll destroy the house when he hears the truck fire up at 3:3o in the morning.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 07:39 PM

read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 07:57 PM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.


Stop making so much sense. You'll just keep confusing everyone thumbup1
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 08:25 PM

Tim started Tucker on Coyotes. (frozen stiff)







Coons? Heck, I don't know. During Tucker's first summer we couldn't keep these little masked rascals out of the cage traps. Trapped them two at a time. I figured it was a sign. Tucker was born on 3/17 so I guess they were about the same age.







Later, in the fall we used some bigger bandits. She treed this one next to the barn at a pretty young age.







Any way I love it when she trees coons for me. So I guess for us maybe it is okay.

And YES, it's time to put some Coyotes in front of her. Guess we'll see if she can learn to do both.
Posted by: coyote1758

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 08:39 PM

Again guys thanks for the help.Not saying she is all that.She has not had a yote want to bit her yet and I was trying to get her to realize her teeth are her her defend herself and not just for eating dog food.Maybe I am more concerned than her.I read my first post and it read let she was a really good dog,she is 10mos old pup learning,so let me humble and tell you that me and sam are learning togather.I am no dog trainer and just trying to learn from the guys on here.Thanks again,chuck
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 08:44 PM

Cool Beans Chuck! Have Fun!
Posted by: cawilson82

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 10:56 PM

i'm with the group on this. use the coon and i'd add trapping a few coyotes for her.
Posted by: gonzaga

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/18/11 11:30 PM

It's YOUR dog, train em as you see fit. If you want a dog that will get after just coyotes all the time, that is gonna be difficult to trash break her off of coons and other critters because it's sounds like shes turning into an all around dog.

Coyotes are Tugs primary target, but he has chased more than a few cats and coons too. Keeps him gamey, when I'm on a coyote stand and a coon shows up, I'm sure were gonna take it just as if a badger or a bobcat shows up.

Take her out and hunt her, it's alot more fun than honey dos.

Good luck, and good hunting.

gonzaga
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/19/11 08:44 AM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.


I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/19/11 09:11 AM

The extent of my 'trash breaking' so far has been with deer & livestock. The rest is fair game, as far as I'm concerned. And after a spell, the pup has pretty much figgerd out what we'z be huntin' purdy quik... wink

Case in point, these pics are from the same day back in late February.

Morning, treeing like a champ...


Afternoon, bringing a nice coyote back to me...


Take your dog calling as much as you can! If the pup has 1/2 a brain, it'll start to realize that when daddy sits down & makes funny noises, then coyotes come to play. If the pup has already seen 10-15 coyote kilt, then I'd keep doing exactly what you are doing (CALLING coyotes wink )

Showing the pup a coon might get him riled up, but that isn't going to help it decoy a coyote any better.

If ya show him this...

and this...

your cur will likely get good at this...

and this

and this...


So if that's what you want, then show him a couple coon laugh


but if you want this:

then keep doing this...


Don't make this chit any harder than it has to be. There is no rigid boot camp guidelines to making a dog other than showing it the right game. So just keep taking your pup out & hopefully, it'll figure stuff out to your satisfaction...

Good luck & enjoy your pup!!!
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/19/11 07:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.


I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.


does he have to fight a coyote? no he doesnt rolleyes #1 a coyote will kill a lap dog and eat it.it's gonna try to run your cur (or airedale) out of its territory. if a dog that sizes up with a coyote a coyote will back off,period. it doesnt have the luxury of a full belly of food every night, or vet care, or someone watching over its shoulder with a gun. coyotes or any wild animal for that matter gets hurt it dies. its called flight or fight thumbup1 if cornered it will fight but will opt for flight if theres any chance.
so lets say you wound a coyote, your dog does a great job trailing it to the end and bays... did he do his job? or does he have to rag on a coyote that has a 50 grain bullet that tore off his front shoulder off or the bullet that went into the guts? if that makes you stand a little taller thinking your dog just whooped a coyote, well so be it. a fellows ego is alot for a dog to carry.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/19/11 07:47 PM

knockemdown,i would say he has figured the game... and likes it.
Posted by: gonzaga

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/19/11 08:55 PM

Nice pics knockemdown, that dog can jump.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/20/11 09:01 AM

Thanks guys, but he needs ALOT more coyotes in front of him to get to where I'd say he really knows what he's doing with 'em.
I know there are some guys that easily put more coyotes in front of their dog in two weeks than I could every hope to in a season here. But that ain't stopping us from trying & having a good time of it... smile

As for treeing coons & ditch tigers, he's kinda had that part 'built in' from a young age. Just gotta hope he don't skewer his own self at the tree with all that pogostickin'! Nice to see he wants the meat though. Coon kill season opens next week... wink
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 10:41 AM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.


I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.


if that makes you stand a little taller thinking your dog just whooped a coyote, well so be it. a fellows ego is alot for a dog to carry.


We're looking at different sides of the same coin. When I take mine out, we head out figuring that they probably won't have to scrap with a healthy coyote . And for the most part that's true. Probably 98 % of the time. Knockem' hasn't said that he's an ADC guy and will be doing denning work, trapping using drags, or batting clean up for aerial guys who have to use non-toxic shot ( BRILLIANT PLAN BY THE WAY, USDA !!!) But he did say he'd like his dog to know that it's teeth are good for more than just eating. I figure the place to start with that might not be using a healthy, foot-loose coyote. I have had one dog over the years that could take on a coyote one to one and that was a stag named "Tut". Tut was pretty exceptional. But I think any dog that goes into the field in pursuit of coyotes might wanna have some fire in it's belly as I guarantee a situation will arise that has Knockem' and dog in a situation where it's handy.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 11:04 AM

i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 11:10 AM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1

who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?

My mistake. It was 1758 who said that, not Knockem'. Muhbad

and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.

I agree.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 11:18 AM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 11:22 AM

Originally Posted By: coyote1758
Again guys thanks for the help.Not saying she is all that.She has not had a yote want to bit her yet and I was trying to get her to realize her teeth are her her defend herself and not just for eating dog food.Maybe I am more concerned than her.I read my first post and it read let she was a really good dog,she is 10mos old pup learning,so let me humble and tell you that me and sam are learning togather.I am no dog trainer and just trying to learn from the guys on here.Thanks again,chuck



My mistake . I was getting 1758 and Knokemdown confused . Here's the originater of the thread's post.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 11:47 AM

Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.


where is this place where coyotes are becoming apathetic towards dogs? the suburbs of california?where no hunting is allowed? not here in the good old midwest...coyotes run from brittany's here see it every yr bird hunting.and for coon hounds really? wolves destroy hounds but never heard of a coyote or coyotes for that matter gettin hounds. i'm sure you have heard of fox hounds, julys, ect... they chase coyotes for a living,i'm not sure why they would breed a cross into them unless they were lacking something??? hounds have been around a long time, no sence in reventing the wheel.
how are these crosses working out for them? are they gaining the grit needed to protect them? how about loosing the control,staunch pointing, retrieving instincts?
were these guys from work hunting with there bird dogs? i assume in oklahoma?
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.


where is this place where coyotes are becoming apathetic towards dogs? the suburbs of california?where no hunting is allowed? not here in the good old midwest...coyotes run from brittany's here see it every yr bird hunting. OK... and for coon hounds really? wolves destroy hounds but never heard of a coyote or coyotes for that matter gettin hounds. i'm sure you have heard of fox hounds, julys, ect... they chase coyotes for a living,i'm not sure why they would breed a cross into them unless they were lacking something??? hounds have been around a long time, no sence in reventing the wheel.
how are these crosses working out for them? are they gaining the grit needed to protect them? how about loosing the control,staunch pointing, retrieving instincts? I have no idea what you're talking about...what crosses did I mention ? I'm talking about traditional coonhounds.
were these guys from work hunting with there bird dogs? i assume in oklahoma? Right here in Oklahoma
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 12:24 PM

WoW, this thread is bouncing all over the place, lol. I will put almost any dog on a coon once, just to see what they have. Like said before, if the dog has the drive, a coon will sure show you it does, a coon will turn and fight. A dog that has never had to fight will keep on not fighting. If you start putting it on coons, and making it fight, then that will be his go to move, use his teeth.

But that being said, a cornered gut shot coyote will cause the same affect, if your dog is working for you the way you want, i say leave it be. Dont fix what isnt broken. Some day if the dog is cornered into a fight with a coyote, you will find out what he has. Ether he will fight, or he wont, but no ammunt of coons will change that.

Like said before, coyotes are smart, they know if they get injured, they die, and will avoid a fight at all cost. If it was a coyotes perogative to turn and fight, we wouldnt need hounds that were so fast, we would just take pit bulls out, and when the coyotes attacked them, they would die.

I have fox hounds that will kill coyotes by them selfs. But i like most guys have had a dog get in a bad situation with coyotes, and they needed help, im not saying they would have been killed, but they wouldnt have been so healthy when they walked away, but i surely didnt stand by and watch my dogs get killed infront of my eyes!
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 12:29 PM

An account from another site....


Took Earl out coon hunting last saturday, we made it about three quarters of the way around the vineyard when coyotes sounded off. On the garmin it showed Earl making a bee line in the direction of the coyotes. When he got about 380 yards out the coyotes lit up again with quite a rucus. Well when Earl got there he must have realized he was out numbered and turned tail. He came by us like a streak with the coyoyes in hot pursuit yipping and howling all the way to the truck, and when they saw us they started barking at us and howling. They were only about 45 yards away and we could see them through the brush it was a pretty eary feeling.
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 12:40 PM

Aaron, im not disputing the fact that a spring time coyote guarding a den full of pups wont run a dog out of the woods. We have it happen from time to time with us, but the point is, Had that dog turned to fight that pack of coyotes, what do you think would have happened?

The dog acted true to his instincts of self preservation. RUN! A coyote will do the same thing if a dog is trying to kill it. I dont care how much grit you breed into any dog, if he tries to fight three coyotes at once, he isnt going to be feeling too spry when its all said and done!
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 12:42 PM

quote: i know many guys who are now using airedales,bmc,catahoulas and other hard breeds in with there bird dogs and coonhounds to keep the coyotes off of them... traditional coon hounds walkers,blue ticks,english, blk/tans, ect...or are they running these breeds with the coon hounds and bird dogs? if that is the case how do the bird hunters keep a airedale or catahoula from busting birds or making a brittany break a point?
and the hounds are the "hard dogs" turned loose after the coyotes attack? i would think a airedale might turn a straight cooner into a trash hound running with one.

i also assume they were not hunting when there bird dogs were attacked and killed? only speaking for myself, i would of waded in and stomped a coyote... but i would of bet money the yote would of turned tail and ran.... back to the fight or flight.... the latter 98% of the time.lol
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 01:10 PM

Bird hunters are keeping the 'dales at heel, even using them as flushers from time to time; but they can be sent to help if needed. The guys I know for a fact doing this are in Nebraska and another bunch in No. Mo..

The coon hunters are letting the dogs run right in with the hounds. My guess is that they are content to just trot along with the hounds cause it makes 'em feel like they're contributing to the chase .I don't know but it's not uncommon for some guys to put an Airedale in with hounds.

The dead upland bird dogs...from what I understand is that even though both incidents occurred maybe 25 miles from each other, they were both similar in that it a single dog and the guys had lost sight of it for a short time. I believe the Brit was in a ravine and the Setter was in some thick stuff along the Canadian River. In the Britt case, I believe they entered the ravine and the coyote was on the body still "fighting" the obviously dead dog . They sent a load of #6's it's way, but we all know fruitless that'd been . The Setter...they got there right after the fact , and the dog was alive but didn't make it back to the truck. They said it was obviously a canine of some kind judging by the tracks left in the red dirt/mud.The assumption is that it was a coyote.

Neither of these guys have changed how they hunt with one exception...they used to have the typical western Okie quail hunter mindset that a bird dog has to range clear to the horizon to find birds. Now they have alot more control over their existing dogs and that's a good thing.
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 01:16 PM

I have done lots of hunting along the Canadian, and i can assure you there are some rough coyotes over there, lol.
Posted by: 17tactical

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 01:17 PM

too bad you dont live near me, I trap 5 coons every weekend raiding my neighbors' trash cans... Rolling cage can do wonders for a coonhound
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey
I have done lots of hunting along the Canadian, and i can assure you there are some rough coyotes over there, lol.



Any insight on why that is ? Cause I've had that same experience ....bad news down along that "river" that now looks more like a dirt road.

Here's a vid clip of a pack of hounds involved with a bear that didn't wanna stay in the tree...and a little airedale in with them.

http://www.reloadpress.com/cg/bear/
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 01:47 PM

No, i have never really tried to justify it. There are some sections over there that the coyotes a re real rough, and you can move 15 miles down the road, and its like a whold different world.

This winter, my hound pack was, well, lets just say less than par, and in one area, i had to go with the hounds several times to get a coyote to run. They just wanted to stand and fight. It was spring time, and they were protecting a den. I know it sounds like im contradicting my previouse post, but i never had a dog killed. In that situation there is two options, The dog is going to kill the coyote (in this case i didnt have the dog power for that) or the dog is going to come back to the truck.

I think most of it is DNA. There is lots of coyotes in that area, so they are very teritorial. Lots of compitition makes tough coyotes. It takes a pretty gritty coyote to hold a pack together, so you have real tough and gritty coyotes breeding all the biches. Well, just like dogs, a real gritty coyote will most likely throw real gritty pups, and they just continue to get rougher and rougher through the generations.

Without that strong compitition, the coyotes dont need to be quite as gritty. In wild animals, its amazing how mother nature will cause critters to addapt to the environment, and is reflected in their manorisms.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 02:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey
I have done lots of hunting along the Canadian, and i can assure you there are some rough coyotes over there, lol.


Sounds like it would be a fun area to spend some time with a high speed "decoy dog" and an AR.
tongue_smilie
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey
I have done lots of hunting along the Canadian, and i can assure you there are some rough coyotes over there, lol.


Sounds like it would be a fun area to spend some time with a high speed "decoy dog" and an AR.
tongue_smilie


Come on down Haus! My door is always oppen! I will even bring a few high powered hounds just incase that lab gets in trouble! hehehe
Posted by: CAT DADDY COLD

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 02:21 PM

Where be these coyotes that won't run from a decoy dog?
I got one that needs work and about half my coyotes take off at the sight of her this time of year.
Kelly
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 02:28 PM

Originally Posted By: CAT DADDY COLD
Where be these coyotes that won't run from a decoy dog?
I got one that needs work and about half my coyotes take off at the sight of her this time of year.
Kelly


I'm not saying they won't run from a decoy dog , Kelly . laugh


But the Setter was killed near the South Canadian near Hinton. Jesse's saying he's had some run-ins with some tough coyotes around the Canadian , as well. Not sure if we're talking the same area, though. And I have had some back when I ran stags make my dogs wonder if they were going to get the job done or not along the Canadian,too.
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 02:31 PM

Kelly, i have no idea about decoy dogs, i am talking about hounds in the spring. But some of the areas i have found to be filled with tough coyotes is around the checotah area, and around lake eufaula.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey

Come on down Haus! My door is always oppen! I will even bring a few high powered hounds just incase that lab gets in trouble! hehehe


Thanks Jesse, you make me LOL. I'm sitting around Sheridan Memorial nursing a bout with Diverticulitis (the hurts like He!! version). I'm doing fine and will get out in the morning. The LOL was most appreciated!

Really, I'm fine please don't muck this thread up with the "get well" posts. Thanks. (-:
Posted by: CAT DADDY COLD

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 03:01 PM

Aaron - I've hunted a bit around Hinton, was in a contest and didn't have a dog. May have to try that area again. Did kill some big mature coyotes while there.

Jesse - understand in the spring. Never called the Checotah area. TOO many up and downs and I like flat anymore lol.


Yall stay after them
Kelly
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 03:23 PM

I understand. Some of those areas get pretty rough.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 08:10 PM

Somehow, this topic has strayed off from the original question.

btw, we had some quality 'decoy dog' training the other evening in the rain, LOL


whistle


So, to get back on topic, lemme offer this.
A coon fights DEFENSIVELY, requiring the dog to actively pursue & engage to start AND continue the fight. If the dog stops fighting, the coon will not engage. That's just how it is & we've all seen it happen.

Now, on the other hand....

IF a coyote is going to go to the extreme of getting physical with a decoy dog on stand, the tables are now turned as it is the coyote (or coyotes) that are going to attack the dog! Ask any guy who's had their dog chewed on by a coyote(s) and they'll tell you that the coyote(s) mean business! Therefore, the decoy dog will need to learn how to protect itself from an aggressive attack from one (or more) coyotes. IMHO, that is a completely different skill set from learning to 'attack' an animal, coon or otherwise. That's why dogs that normally trail, bay & even kill coyotes sometimes turn tail & run when THEY are the one's being attacked!!!

Which is precisely why I think letting a dog fight a coon makes little sense for training it to decoy a coyote. If anything, being over aggressive might get your dog wrecked, or just spook the heck outta coyotes.

If a dog has ANY prey drive at all, it's not gonna need to fire up on a coon after it's already been on a bunch of stands. Just my less than $.02, but that's my take on the situation. Train how you fight & fight how you train, make any sense?

I want my dog to be able to cover his own azz. I'LL DO THE KILLING, thank you very much!

Remember, we're talking DECOY dogs here, NOT stags, Croghans or other running 'kill' dogs.

D
E
C
O
Y
dogs...


So can anyone offer a good reason why a decoy dog who's already decoyed 15 coyotes would somehow benefit from a coon fight at that stage of it's puppyhood & training?

What about guys who run smaller decoy dogs that couldn't possibly kill a coyote. Obviously, a dog of smaller stature that is too aggressive is gonna eventually wind up wrecked or worse, stretched. Yet, these smaller dogs still 'decoy' coyotes effectively. Amazing, huh???

Thats why I'm puzzled as heck as to why there is all this emphasis here on aggression in a decoy dog???


Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 08:48 PM

"why there is all this emphasis here on aggression in a decoy dog???"

I tend to agree. On the coyotes, cats, even the coons and especially the p-pines; I don't think I want Tucker taking ahold. Baying, treeing, decoying and defending are all a part of the program I would like to see, but don't think I need a dog to finish. I shoot to kill.

Is that NY Hooter a top secret training technique? (-:
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 08:54 PM

double post
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 08:54 PM

Craig, that's a lesser spotted ditch tiger with it's ears laid back!
po' boy's bobcat race laugh Spooky sucker baled 2x & pup treed it 3x. Wiiiiidddddeee open on track, LOL!
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 09:02 PM

Ten Roger. Upon further review the initial ruling on the forum has been reversed. (-:

Darn it, I thought we had a new deal going here.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 09:05 PM




So can anyone offer a good reason why a decoy dog who's already decoyed 15 coyotes would somehow benefit from a coon fight at that stage of it's puppyhood & training?

What about guys who run smaller decoy dogs that couldn't possibly kill a coyote. Obviously, a dog of smaller stature that is too aggressive is gonna eventually wind up wrecked or worse, stretched. Yet, these smaller dogs still 'decoy' coyotes effectively. Amazing, huh???

Thats why I'm puzzled as heck as to why there is all this emphasis here on aggression in a decoy dog???


[/quote]


i can't... lol
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/21/11 10:12 PM

Not a good reason, but it would just be for fun for me and Tucker. But, then that's what our program is all about, fun. Coons, cats, coyotes, P-pines are all on the menu here. Shocks have been effectively administered for snakes, livestock & hooved wildlife early on and they are no longer interesting.

Caged coons? Mason put the whoa on that for us some time ago.

See how we are here? (-:

Ramble, Ramble, Ramble.


Boy I'm ready to go home in the morning!
Posted by: Catdawg

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 07:40 AM

There are reasons to use coons for training a decoy dog, like to fire up the game drive in a pup and maybe to teach a pup what end has teeth and means business... other than that, the dog will learn very little that will help it with coyotes.

When I ran curs, I used them for both decoying coyotes and treeing game. They did well at both. If this is the plan, coons are valuable training aids and very worthy quarry for young dogs. They learn to strike, run and tree their own game and once they start to figure coons out, they have the foundation to go on to cats and bears.

If all you're ever going to do is decoy with your dog, coons are useless in your young dogs training (Except for teaching a young dog how to fight smart).

As far as decoy dogs NOT needing to know how to fight...? Anyone that believes that, needs to go call more coyotes in to their dogs. Sooner or later your dogs are going to get caught by coyotes that mean business. Coyotes are very territorial and when they answer your challenge howl and come on the run, they're not coming to introduce themselves and shake hands.

Some coyotes will see your dog and turn tail and run, some WILL NOT! I want my dog to be ready for a fight and that is why I bring them up the ranks learning to fight other critters.

If you take a green, year or so old pup out and run into a big, aggressive male yote... You'll wish you had gave him some preliminary bouts beforehand, with something more manageable and so will he. That's a real good way to ruin a promising young dog.

This isn't rocket science, it's common sense. It's all about exposure to game and setting them up for success. Take the right pup, raise it right and you'll be amazed at what that dog will learn to do.

Take care and happy hunting!
Posted by: gonzaga

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 10:24 AM

I like that analogy Catdawg, good insight from a guy that runs his dogs.

Thanks.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 10:56 AM

some very good insight catdawg but isnt that where a decoy dog decoys them back? nipping there a$$ aint gonna kill a dog, maybe the handler should of recalled sooner?i guess if a fella is just taking pictures,yes but if the handler is toting a firearm? i no i'm speaking out of turn but rockinbar's schnauzer has made it work for alot of coyotes.i see lots of pics of decoy dogs and there aint none of them scarred up like they have been fighting. maybe the coyotes around here are different? dont know, maybe every body see's fighting/ defending at different levels?has anyone on here that decoys coyotes ever lost one to coyotes killing them?

fight or flight...
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 02:16 PM

Who would have thought this topic would turn into such a thought provoking, informative discussion?

PredatorMasters Rocks!
Posted by: coyote1758

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 03:22 PM

Thanks catdawg,you said exactly what I was trying to learn,and I agree that is what I was trying to teach the dog was how to fight smart.And as for calling the dog back sooner and it being just a decoy,well a rabbit would work just as well and I would not worry about it getting chewed up or killed.She"sam" is doing a good job being them back but not every hunt works perfect and if she gets in trouble I will set up and stop it but needs to know how to fight smart with a coon or coyote,yet know the game is bring it back to me.Again thanks catdawg.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Catdawg
There are reasons to use coons for training a decoy dog, like to fire up the game drive in a pup and maybe to teach a pup what end has teeth and means business... other than that, the dog will learn very little that will help it with coyotes.

When I ran curs, I used them for both decoying coyotes and treeing game. They did well at both. If this is the plan, coons are valuable training aids and very worthy quarry for young dogs. They learn to strike, run and tree their own game and once they start to figure coons out, they have the foundation to go on to cats and bears.

If all you're ever going to do is decoy with your dog, coons are useless in your young dogs training (Except for teaching a young dog how to fight smart).

As far as decoy dogs NOT needing to know how to fight...? Anyone that believes that, needs to go call more coyotes in to their dogs. Sooner or later your dogs are going to get caught by coyotes that mean business. Coyotes are very territorial and when they answer your challenge howl and come on the run, they're not coming to introduce themselves and shake hands.

Some coyotes will see your dog and turn tail and run, some WILL NOT! I want my dog to be ready for a fight and that is why I bring them up the ranks learning to fight other critters.

If you take a green, year or so old pup out and run into a big, aggressive male yote... You'll wish you had gave him some preliminary bouts beforehand, with something more manageable and so will he. That's a real good way to ruin a promising young dog.

This isn't rocket science, it's common sense. It's all about exposure to game and setting them up for success. Take the right pup, raise it right and you'll be amazed at what that dog will learn to do.

Take care and happy hunting!


Thank you !! Is it really that hard to imagine ? Jesus...some of this has made me feel like I was explaining ice to a Pygmy.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 03:59 PM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
some very good insight catdawg but isnt that where a decoy dog decoys them back? nipping there a$$ aint gonna kill a dog, maybe the handler should of recalled sooner?i guess if a fella is just taking pictures,yes but if the handler is toting a firearm? i no i'm speaking out of turn but rockinbar's schnauzer has made it work for alot of coyotes.i see lots of pics of decoy dogs and there aint none of them scarred up like they have been fighting. maybe the coyotes around here are different? dont know, maybe every body see's fighting/ defending at different levels?has anyone on here that decoys coyotes ever lost one to coyotes killing them?

fight or flight...


You don't run decoy dogs.....so why do you continue to act as though you know coyote behavior with regards to decoy dogs ? Starting to piss me off.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 04:12 PM

Hate to see folks get upset. I feel like the process here has yielded some really good discussion which brought out some well articulated info. Sure was valuable to me. Isn't that what this is all about?
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
Hate to see folks get upset. I feel like the process here has yielded some really good discussion which brought out some well articulated info. Sure was valuable to me. Isn't that what this is all about?


That's exactly what it's all about....however, you have one guy who has said he doesn't hunt this way give an opinion on how these dogs should be trained and how coyotes should react to them. Even though he doesn't use 'em,


Be like me telling him how to dig terriers.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 04:29 PM

You know how some dogs hate to turn loose after they get ahold.

I love that about Terriers ....... and their owners. thumbup1
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 04:40 PM

Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
You know how some dogs hate to turn loose after they get ahold.

I love that about Terriers ....... and their owners. thumbup1


HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! It's true ! And it's no different in the British Isles either.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 04:53 PM

Besides that I was born in Kansas. Everyone knows that the nicest people you will ever meet are from Kansas. cool

I expect that goes for Terriers also. thumbup

And as a former Husker...well I would Sooner be a Husker. tt2
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 04:59 PM

To true...not letting go of the sock waved in front of me just yet,though,
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 08:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
some very good insight catdawg but isnt that where a decoy dog decoys them back? nipping there a$$ aint gonna kill a dog, maybe the handler should of recalled sooner?i guess if a fella is just taking pictures,yes but if the handler is toting a firearm? i no i'm speaking out of turn but rockinbar's schnauzer has made it work for alot of coyotes.i see lots of pics of decoy dogs and there aint none of them scarred up like they have been fighting. maybe the coyotes around here are different? dont know, maybe every body see's fighting/ defending at different levels?has anyone on here that decoys coyotes ever lost one to coyotes killing them?

fight or flight...


You don't run decoy dogs.....so why do you continue to act as though you know coyote behavior with regards to decoy dogs ? Starting to piss me off.


aaron proffit, dont be mad rolleyes do you hunt your dogs? do you decoy coyotes? i have a airedale but dont have a good enough handle on her to bring her back cursing is it because she is to "gamey" maybe? or maybe she justs turns a deaf ear, but i can promise you this she will fight and i didnt have to teach her $hit.lol can she kill a coyote that is uninjured? nope i dont believe so,can she track/trail a coyote wounded or not ? you bet she can.i have ran her like a trail hound many times pushing creek bottoms and moving several coyotes (up to 5) and she does this alone thumbup1never had one or two whip her. maybe i'm just lucky? dont know. one thing to remember... its better to be pissed off than to be pissed on tt2
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 09:52 PM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i have ran her like a trail hound many times pushing creek bottoms and moving several coyotes


Cool! Do you post shooters up the creek? Sounds like fun.

Tell us how that works.
Posted by: Dustballs

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/22/11 09:55 PM



aaron proffit, dont be mad rolleyes do you hunt your dogs? do you decoy coyotes? i have a airedale but dont have a good enough handle on her to bring her back cursing is it because she is to "gamey" maybe? or maybe she justs turns a deaf ear, but i can promise you this she will fight and i didnt have to teach her $hit.lol can she kill a coyote that is uninjured? nope i dont believe so,can she track/trail a coyote wounded or not ? you bet she can.i have ran her like a trail hound many times pushing creek bottoms and moving several coyotes (up to 5) and she does this alone thumbup1never had one or two whip her. maybe i'm just lucky? dont know. one thing to remember... its better to be pissed off than to be pissed on tt2 [/quote]

Sounds to me that your dale is not hunting for you to me! Man I must have really screwed my dogs up. We hunt what ever arises at the time. But we have a great time.
Posted by: Catdawg

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 04:39 AM

ET- The only person talking about a decoy dog killing a Coyote, is you pal.

Usually a "Decoy Dog" has a handler with a gun (Or a couple Stags... huh UHD?) along to do the killing. You have made it very clear you don't do any decoying by some of the things you have said and the interpretations you have made.

If you can't see the obvious need/benefit of having a dog that knows how to defend itself when decoying coyotes, then you really have no clue how this game is played.

I will agree with you that if a coyote gets put in a position where it's life is on the line, it will seek a way out! I am in no way talking about that scenario when I say a decoy dog needs to be able to fight to protect itself.

I was more thinking about the scenario where a big, dominant male coyote comes hauling in to your challenge howl, on a dead run and ole "Fido" is sitting there licking his nuts... He's about to get in a fight and it just might help if he knows how!

Take care.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 07:38 AM

where have you seen me make a post about a decoy dog killing a coyote??? you have me mixed up with someone else,pal. iv'e seen lots of pics on here but they sure aint killin coyotes they are DECOYING them. catdawg, have you had a big, dominate male come hauling in and just bowl your decoy dog over? did he stay on top of your dog and soundly whoop him? i would love to see the coyote that could /would try this on our airedale or duanes@ssu catahoula's,or one jesses hounds... like i said before we must have a different coyote here... smart ones.

decoy dog sitting there licking its nuts. maybe that one needs ate.lol
all joking aside
i agree with you 100% about a young dog not getting it handed to him
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 07:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Dustballs


aaron proffit, dont be mad rolleyes do you hunt your dogs? do you decoy coyotes? i have a airedale but dont have a good enough handle on her to bring her back cursing is it because she is to "gamey" maybe? or maybe she justs turns a deaf ear, but i can promise you this she will fight and i didnt have to teach her $hit.lol can she kill a coyote that is uninjured? nope i dont believe so,can she track/trail a coyote wounded or not ? you bet she can.i have ran her like a trail hound many times pushing creek bottoms and moving several coyotes (up to 5) and she does this alone thumbup1never had one or two whip her. maybe i'm just lucky? dont know. one thing to remember... its better to be pissed off than to be pissed on tt2


Sounds to me that your dale is not hunting for you to me! Man I must have really screwed my dogs up. We hunt what ever arises at the time. But we have a great time. [/quote]

that my freind has alot to do with being a terrier and not a cur... naw i bet your dogs suits you fine other wise you wouldn't keep them. same here too, have worked coons,coyotes badgers,bobcats,if the critter lives here we have tried it.last but not least thats the most important have a good time. wink
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 08:01 AM

Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i have ran her like a trail hound many times pushing creek bottoms and moving several coyotes


Cool! Do you post shooters up the creek? Sounds like fun.

Tell us how that works.


yep have posted shooters or sent the stags when they pop out. my favorite place is a dry creek bottom(really dry this yr) that covers 2 sections. we start the airedale on the south end of the creek we move a 1/2 mile west into a hay field and kind of follow/border her as she moves up the drainage.any coyotes that squirt out on this side the stags get the call. the north end usually a shotgunner waits and takes any thing that goes all the way through. this is usually a late winter stand as most break for open ground till then. the east side we let go its open wheat fields,but we get after'm as soon as they get across them. its just a game rich spot, we have taken lots of coyotes several bobcats,coons in this place lots of fun and action.
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 09:33 AM

Where do you guys get the misconceptions that you need to train a dog to defend itself? The point that is trying to be made s simple, and it makes no difference weather a guy hunts with decoy dogs or not, a general understanding of dogs will tell you that if a dog is doing its job, let it do its job.

If you find yourself "teaching your dog to defend himself" well then o would say you don't have much of a dog there.
Posted by: gonzaga

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 10:53 AM

I like to shoot the coyotes before they cause bodily harm. The dog bringing the coyote to me is the part that I'm in for not the dogs fighting. Heck if I wanted my freaking dogs fighting all the time, I would take my dogs to the local meatheads with a yard full of in untrained pitbulls on their chains. That ain't what I'm about. I ain't a dog fighting fan.

I want my dogs to succeed, and give them as much confidence as possible. That's why I used the coyote hide to let him chew on. I don't have a ton of coons around every corner like some of you guys, just every once in awhile. I guess I want him to get gamey, and he knows when I call him off that it's over and time to move on to the next game.
I'm a dog hobbiest, I hunt them as much as I can. Not for a living.
If you hunt coons, cool. I'm sure I could learn alot by hunting with you. Heck I'm sure that I couldn't hold a candle to any of you guys, nor could my dogs.
I'm just trying to have fun and spend time with my dogs and my kids.

Good luck guys and keep on hunting.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 11:14 AM

Likewise, GZ. This is all about fun for me & the pup...

Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey
Where do you guys get the misconceptions that you need to train a dog to defend itself? The point that is trying to be made s simple, and it makes no difference weather a guy hunts with decoy dogs or not, a general understanding of dogs will tell you that if a dog is doing its job, let it do its job.

If you find yourself "teaching your dog to defend himself" well then o would say you don't have much of a dog there.



Jesse, I don't have ANY misconceptions as to training 'defense'. You are reading more into that than is really there. It has already been established in this thread that ANY dog worth it's hide already possesses the innate ability & desire to defend itself.
I was simply making apparent the difference in BEHAVIOR, one to the other. When training a dog, a handler's goal is to reinforce desired behaviors and admonish undesirable ones. Even smart dogs are at best DUMB, and need consistent & repeated reinforcement & praise to lock in a desirable behavior. If a handler deviates somehow, it is only confusing the dog, therefore making it's training more difficult. Put a dog with 1/2 a brain cell, ample prey drive and the desire to please in a position to succeed and 99x out of 100, that hunting dog is gonna make you smile. But it's OUR job as their handler/trainer to effectively CREATE that scenario and PRAISE that behavior accordingly.

To recommend that a dog which has already seen 15 coyote on stand, needs a few coon to 'teach' it, isn't going to further that dog any in it's decoy training. At best, it won't help one bit and more likely, at worst, it's just gonna confuse the dog as to what you expect from it. These cur dogs are very sensitive to pleasing you, so IMHO, not good to screw with their little brains like that. They learn quick enough, so why make it harder?
Training a multipurpoe hunting dog is exponentially harder, and requires much more specific parameters for locking in desired behaviors. This is where having a dog with 'brains' (loosely used) is essential! But you still need to establish what you want the dog to do & be consistent enough for the dog to figure out what it's job is at the moment...

That said, the fact remains that having your pup fight a coon makes about as much sense to me for training a decoy dog as would training your foxhound to perform a water retrieve laugh The one desired BEHAVIOR of the dog has nothing to do with the other...

Using 'offgame' to fire up a young pup is one thing. But that interaction dang sure ain't gonna learn that pup how to FOOL A COYOTE BACK TO YOU ON A CALLING STAND. This has been my whole stance all along and I'm stickin' to it. That part requires BRAINS (learned behavior), not brawn (basic prey drive)...

Originally Posted By: Catdawg
There are reasons to use coons for training a decoy dog, like to fire up the game drive in a pup and maybe to teach a pup what end has teeth and means business... other than that, the dog will learn very little that will help it with coyotes.


So again to all, forget the 'firing a pup up' excuse and tell us exactly HOW chasing/fighting a coon will help bring out & develop the 'tolling' behavior that is essential for a decoy dog to to do it's job???
It is my opinion that you don't just throw a dog some offgame to chew & call it a started decoy dog. It is very difficult to simulate the desired behavior of a decoy dog on stand. From what little I understand of the behavior, the most effective way to do it remains taking the pup on stand, after stand, after stand, after stand.

I'm not singling you out in my reply, Jesse. I'd like to hear from any anyone else who's gung ho on using coons to train their decoy pups. How does the behavior of engage & pursue to a fight (coon) somehow correlate to engage, then run away from a fight (coyote)???

Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 11:48 AM

And if you guys haven't picked up on it, I'm playing "devil's advocate" here in the spirit of stimulating conversation & sharing knowledge, because I'm faaaaarrrr and away not even close to figuring this stuff out...
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 11:50 AM

there you have it the last 3 posts summed up alot of what i'm was trying to get across. i can talk way better than i can type.lol and by the way i ain't looking to start no fight with anyone on here but wasnt this better than than just looking on the houndsman section of pred masters and having a discussion instead of nothing?

what do you guys want to fight about next? LOL
Posted by: gonzaga

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 01:24 PM

I'm glad that you guys could see things my way.....lol.

I like these types of discussions because we are trying to describe what kind of dog we want to hunt with and what we expect from our dogs. I don't have show dogs....they just roll around in the dirt.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 02:12 PM

PXtreme article linky
The gentleman who wrote that article needs no introduction, but Mr. Cal Taylor has been using decoy dogs on coyotes for a long azz time. And he is one of the 1st ADC men to show decoy dogs at work in his video "Coyote Hunting is Going to the Dogs".

The article offers very basic tips for getting a prospect started, so can anyone find any reference to 'firing up' a pup with a caged coon anywhere? confused Man if it were such a good idea, you'd think one of the godfathers of decoy dogs would have mentioned it? whistle

P.S. the dog in the article photo is not Cal's...
Posted by: trapper2

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 09:06 PM

well this has been a good read to see how different people train dogs. i probably do it wrong for everyone but me, but it works for my turd hounds. i use my dogs on everything i come across, be a coyote (trapped, snared, trapped, called, etc.), a coon (in a trap, crossing the road, in a feeder), beaver (in a lodge, bank hole, snare), bobcats, hogs, finding wounded deer, if i need a dog for it or can figure out a way to use a dog for it i will. every pup i have ever raised has been baying coons in a cage trap by the time they were 9 or 10 weeks old, why coons? cause they are easy to trap in any feed room i go by, easy to bring home and show to pups, i will start them on snared coyotes when they are old enough to follow a 4-wheeler. but i will still let older dogs bay a coon or fight it. like i siad i use mine on alot of different stuff but if they were only decoying i would still let mine bay a coon or fight it, does this ever give me problems, yes it does, i will jump a coon while hog hunting every so often, but i cant have a different set of dogs for everything i hunt, so i have to deal with some trashing. my dogs and the way i train mine works for me but most people wouldnt even feed this set of culls, but i happen to get to work with guys that use a dog everyday for the same reasons i do and hunt everything they come across and do it pretty much the same way i do so it works for us, but like i said probably wont work for everyone.

but on another note, letting your dog bay a coon in a trap is not going to make or brake him, i know where some of the best decoy dogs in the US are and some have bayed coon and some have not, the one thing they all have in common is they have seen more game in the first yr of their lives then most dogs will in a life time, nothing against the dogs that dont see that much, most people are not going to be able to have the time to show a dog as much game as they would like to, but in my opinion alot of people try to find some way to make a great dog and the one thing it takes is ALOT of game put in front of the dog, you do that and your chances just went up by alot, no matter what kind of hunting dog you are trying to train
Posted by: btech29

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 10:05 PM

Originally Posted By: trapper2
well this has been a good read to see how different people train dogs. i probably do it wrong for everyone but me, but it works for my turd hounds. i use my dogs on everything i come across, be a coyote (trapped, snared, trapped, called, etc.), a coon (in a trap, crossing the road, in a feeder), beaver (in a lodge, bank hole, snare), bobcats, hogs, finding wounded deer, if i need a dog for it or can figure out a way to use a dog for it i will. every pup i have ever raised has been baying coons in a cage trap by the time they were 9 or 10 weeks old, why coons? cause they are easy to trap in any feed room i go by, easy to bring home and show to pups, i will start them on snared coyotes when they are old enough to follow a 4-wheeler. but i will still let older dogs bay a coon or fight it. like i siad i use mine on alot of different stuff but if they were only decoying i would still let mine bay a coon or fight it, does this ever give me problems, yes it does, i will jump a coon while hog hunting every so often, but i cant have a different set of dogs for everything i hunt, so i have to deal with some trashing. my dogs and the way i train mine works for me but most people wouldnt even feed this set of culls, but i happen to get to work with guys that use a dog everyday for the same reasons i do and hunt everything they come across and do it pretty much the same way i do so it works for us, but like i said probably wont work for everyone.

but on another note, letting your dog bay a coon in a trap is not going to make or brake him, i know where some of the best decoy dogs in the US are and some have bayed coon and some have not, the one thing they all have in common is they have seen more game in the first yr of their lives then most dogs will in a life time, nothing against the dogs that dont see that much, most people are not going to be able to have the time to show a dog as much game as they would like to, but in my opinion alot of people try to find some way to make a great dog and the one thing it takes is ALOT of game put in front of the dog, you do that and your chances just went up by alot, no matter what kind of hunting dog you are trying to train


Good post Ryan. I agree with you. I was going to post something similar but have learned if your not a dog expert your opinion aint worth nothing in this forum. I dont want my dogs working coons, but I would sick them on one if the opportunity arose. It aint going to make them any less of a decoy dog to ruff up a coon from time to time. I had a dillo in the yard and sicked Spot and Doc on it. They had a good time killing it and I enjoyed watching it. I think it was good for them. Ive made a hundred stands since then with no problems with them running around looking for dillos. Im not a dog expert, never ever claimed to be. I do however spend a lot of time with my dogs. Ive learned a lot just watching them. In fact I may go out and find a coon just to watch them kill it.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 10:12 PM

I've been guiding the past few days and nights and finally got caught up on this thread. There's some good discussion here. The fact of the matter is, that all train and use their dogs differently to suit their needs. In my case, Gunner has caught 8 different coyotes in the past 2-3 weeks, that were missed by hunters. He got a big pat on the head and the coyote was strung up on the fur pole. That's part of his job, in my book. There were a handful of others that he caught, picked a fight, then came back, looking over his shoulder, trying to decoy them back to us. I would have loved to add them to the fur pole, but it was enjoyable watching him trying to figure out when to decoy and when to not, as a relatively young dog. To have your dog cast out after coyotes, especially at night, and not have the confidence that they can handle themselves in a fighting situation (defensive or offensive) with coyote(s) is suicidal. Around these neck of the woods, a dog wouldn't last very long.

We all use our dogs differently. To say one form of training is wrong and another is right is simply an opinion and nothing more.

Good read.

Tony
Posted by: trapper2

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 10:15 PM

jeff, believe me i'm no dog expert by any means but i probably spend as much time with my mutts as most anyone does and i think the more time you spend with a dog and the more game you show them the better they will be, even my pot lickers will decoy a coyote once or twice a year, and if i'm real lucky i will get it killed
Posted by: btech29

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/23/11 10:20 PM

Originally Posted By: trapper2
jeff, believe me i'm no dog expert by any means but i probably spend as much time with my mutts as most anyone does and i think the more time you spend with a dog and the more game you show them the better they will be, even my pot lickers will decoy a coyote once or twice a year, and if i'm real lucky i will get it killed


Ryan, for what its worth I respect your opinion on dogs as much as anyone's. Thats why I pester you all the time with stupid questions.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 07:55 AM

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1


what do you guys want to fight about next? LOL


To dock tails or not....

E-collars...boon or bane ?


Seriously, some of the best fist fights I've ever seen have occurred in parking lots of cafes and along dirt roads ....and it always involved dogmen of some sort.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 07:56 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
We all use our dogs differently. To say one form of training is wrong and another is right is simply an opinion and nothing more.

Good read.

Tony


I relent to that...
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 09:30 AM

True enough.

Good thing nobody has said one way of training is "right" and another is "wrong". What makes perfect sense to one man, might not make any sense to another man in different position.

Originally Posted By: Tony Tebbe
To have your dog cast out after coyotes, especially at night, and not have the confidence that they can handle themselves in a fighting situation (defensive or offensive) with coyote(s) is suicidal. Around these neck of the woods, a dog wouldn't last very long.


Tony, that is an excellent point & I'm glad you brought that up. Given the the fact that you are experienced in running a decoy/recovery/trail/dispatch dog at night on desert coyotes in the 18-30 lb. range, I'd like to pick your brain about how you think that type of dog would work here in NY?

Originally Posted By: Tony Tebbe
In my case, Gunner has caught 8 different coyotes in the past 2-3 weeks, that were missed by hunters.
What do you mean by the word caught? Like caught by himself & finished? Or caught & bayed?

Generally speaking, our adult female coyotes are from 33-40 lbs and adult males between 41-55 lbs. And any reputable houndsman from this area will tell you that it requires some SERIOUS dog power to down a coyote. Races last for 10's of MILES and caught coyotes usually require two or more BIG hounds to finish them, even after a long race. Suffice to say there won't be any "catching coyotes" at night going on, bayed or otherwise.
Big , gritty coon dogs get run out of the woods often enough here and even running hounds that stretch coyotes in the winter after a chase will turn tail & head for the truck at night when a coyote turns the table on them (see Aaron's earlier post)

That all said & given your above quote, would you recommend running a decoy dog with Gunner's skill set here in NY at night?
How long do you think IT would last here, given our much larger coyotes & well documented aggression against hounds twice their size after dark???

I realize your answers would be speculation at best, but I take the welfare of my dog very seriously & really have no one in my area that runs decoy dogs.
To be honest, based on what what I shared above, I have some genuine reservations about having too 'gritty' a decoy dog here in NY. And running one at night would REALLY be taking a risk, IMHO.

Do you think it even remotely possible that a decoy dog could have enough 'grit' to handle a pack of 40#+ coyotes at night by itself? How 'bout in the daytime?

Will any amount of 'coon training' give my dog enough confidence to fight off 3-5 40# coytoes? Or will that extra confidence & 'grit' just get him in a position to be more readily kilt???

thanks...
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 09:50 AM

Good points and you and Tony bring up another factor...how a coyote's behavior completely changes at night.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 09:59 AM

Caught, meaning caught. Run after, catch, and roll up a coyote. Most were bayed, but a couple were dispatched. All were either, missed shots or a secondary coyote on a calling stand. Most were at night, but he caught a daytime coyote just 2 days ago.

I don't believe I'd use a dog like Gunner on your larger coyotes in NY, especially in thick woods. I've had him take off after 4 coyotes in the woods in TX, a year or so ago. I was worried sick about him, when he didn't return. After a while, he came running back with 5 coyotes on his tail. He plopped right down next to us and the shotgunner rolled 2 of them up. Was I worried about him...heck yes!

As I said in prior posts, I haven't used any coons on training Gunner. Heck, we don't even have any around here. But, it doesn't mean I wouldn't of used them in training. I definitely would.

In the open prairie, where I hunt, there were lots of times that I had 5, 6, 7, 8 coyotes after him. Canines are alot smarter than you think. They can size up a situation or opponent and know when they can or cannot handle it. As far as coyotes, most want to chase the dog and nip at their azz end. Even young dogs that I have in training, that seek shelter from a pair of coyotes, instead of making it all the way back to the calling stand, aren't in real danger. (of course I have them covered with firepower, if they are). I've seen coyote pairs chase a young dog that holes up, leave the dog and start chasing the more visible dog. I haven't experienced any coyotes want to flat kill a dog. Most just nip them in the rear to send them away. I would assume that all out brawls to the death in the coyote world are very rare.

Tony
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 10:03 AM

Aaron, some of my most exciting decoy action has been at night this season. I've watched coyotes that were shot at and missed, get chased and decoy right back to the hunting rig, to within shotgun range. One put on a heck of a display of barking, howling, dirt kicking, etc... at a mere 10 steps from the rig. That's where it died. smile

Neatest thing is, watching the dog and coyote work each other, knowing they can't see the other. Must be by sound and scent. Confidence is much higher on the coyote's part at night. All of this was recent and had nothing to do with denning season.

Tony
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 11:06 AM

Thank you, Tony!

I'm sure there are a bunch of houndsmen here in NY/PA that would LOVE to own a single dog that can 'catch' one of our coyotes on it's own so efficiently & with such regularity.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 11:17 AM

Fred, there's a big difference between running coyotes with hounds and what I'm doing. I've ran foxhounds for many years. Gunner is a sprinter. Most races/catches are within 3/4 mile. He'll catch a coyote, but not in a long chase. He's he// on wheels on a jackrabbit too. smile My clients got to watch him catch a jack the other night and hear some live rabbit distress.

Tony
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 11:42 AM

Gotcha.
So how does Gunner know which coyotes to run/catch and which to decoy back to the truck? Or is he catching YOYs and getting run back to the truck by adults, aka 'decoying' them?

From the coyote wagon guys with stags I've conversed with, it takes a VERY special stag to single catch/finish an adult coyote.
So, Gunner can 'catch' a coyote on the open prairie with relative ease, and retains the ability to decoy them back to shotgun range as well?
Who is in control & decides what to Gunner is to do, and with which coyote? Does he really have THAT much sense to decide what to do on his own?
How does this dog handling work? Are you 'toning' him into 'decoy mode'? Or is he in 'decoy mode' until you sicc'em on a coyote?

If he likes to catch jackrabbits, aren't there enough around for him to 'trash' out of performing his decoy/ catchdog combo role? Or does he only chase jacks when there are no coyotes around to run down & kill, or decoy? (I ask because I've broke my pup off rabbits)

Sounds like an awful lot going on, especially under the stars! Heck, I thought it be a might be alot to expect my pup to decoy coyotes the day & tree coon at night!!! You've got a whole nutha level of specialized dog work going on there...
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 12:32 PM

He doesn't know which one to catch and which one to decoy. He is just figuring it out now. He's tried decoying back coyotes that have been poorly shot, on three or four stands in a single night. I was less than pleased that they got away, but I couldn't reprehend a dog for trying to naturally decoy. Sometimes, he will catch a coyote, roll it up, you can hear the fight on, and I will beep him back, bringing the coyote in tow. Sometimes, not.

The other night, we had a coyote coming in good. It stopped at 50 yards out. My buddy Scott shot at it, but his bullet clipped the top wire of a barb fence. Coyote took off, Gunner chased and caught it about 200 yards out. In the midst of the fight, another coyote came from a different direction. By this time, Gunner was coming back from the fight, stopping and looking over his shoulder, trying to bring the coyote back to the rig. The second coyote circled downwind of where the the fight took place and my wife shot at it. It was a pretty far night time shot and she missed. The coyote took off. Gunner ran back out to the second coyote, worked the area hard, ran it's scent, then came back to the rig, with coyote in tow. No commands were given, as we sat back and watch to see how it would all unfold.

Sometimes commands are given, other times he takes things into his own paws. He's had enough experience on stands that he knows when things are going to he// in a hand basket. The other morning, we had a coyote approach us on our backside, standing on a sandhill 10 yards behind us. Noone had a shot. Coyote sized up the situation and decided to bail out. Gunner decided to try and decoy him. No command given. Coyote didn't decoy back, but was proud of him for trying to save the stand.

There is no 'trashing' when it comes to jackrabbits. The dogs will run past 100 rabbits to go after a coyote. But, if we are on a calling stand and a jackrabbit charges in to the call, I'll sick him on them. The hot pursuit barking and chasing adds to the stand. I've had the dogs take off after rabbits, only to drag an unseen coyote back to the stand, from the ruckus. When calling, you are creating chaos on the scene. A rabbit squalling, dog chasing it, let alone catching it...it all makes for some exciting coyote action.

It's not rocket science, it's just hunting. Hope that helps.

Tony
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 04:46 PM

Different strokes for different folks, but if you want your dog to be able to fight coyotes put him on coyotes. Coons fight allot different than a yotes will. If your dog has learned to fight coons, and runs into a wounded or bayed yotes and thinks he is gonna grab it by the back or belly and shake and squeeze until it gives up its throat, well I hope you know how to sew.

Like I said, I will put any fog on a coon if I want to see what kind of grit it has, they are easy to trap, and put up a good fight, but unless im training a coon dog, im not going to use it as a training device. Shoot even when I train coon hounds I rarely turn one loose on a live coon on the ground and let them fight.

JMO
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 06:58 PM

for sale... 6 seasoned stags... looking for a cur.
Posted by: Duane@ssu

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/24/11 08:06 PM

Good discussion guys,
Since it was asked, (I don't remember by who), I have had dogs "hit" by an aggressive coyote, many times, generally no big deal, but no secret I run a bigger dog than some.
I did have a dog "whipped" at night, but that was at a den,in chest high brush in the dark. We killed three adults, and packed an 85 # catahoulla stud back to the rig.Knowing how to fight, and being on over 100 yotes by that point of his life didn't help him win, all he won that night was "first loser".Some DEX,and two days off, he was healing up fine.Most of the country I hunt, If a dog gets more than 50 yards they are out of sight.
Very simple, no matter how tough a dog is, he only has teeth on one end, 3 yotes have teeth all the way around, and can do damage if they set their mind to it.One out if the fat dog could catch a yote, it would be in trouble, fact is, a single yote would run away most times.
As for "fido licking his nuts", and gettin nailed,I guess it would serve him right.
The "coon deal" is and should be "to each there own".
I don't think it hurts, not sure that it helps.
I do know that the more any dog is used,(cowdogs,decoy dogs, hounds) the better they are.

A side note, thanks for keeping this a freindly discussion.
Duane
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/25/11 12:10 PM

Thanks for the input duane. Devin, im curious to hear your op on the subject.
Posted by: Aaron_Proffitt

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/25/11 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Duane@ssu
A side note, thanks for keeping this a freindly discussion.
Duane



We did ? laugh
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/25/11 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: Duane@ssu
A side note, thanks for keeping this a freindly discussion.
Duane



We did ? laugh


Absolutely! Great spirited, thought provoking debate/disagreement without personal attacks.

To me this deal doesn't work when folks are trying to win or convince others over to their way. This thread allowed for everyone to consider all input and form their own thoughts of what might work for them.

If this keeps up there will be all kinds of new guys posting around here.

thumbup1
Posted by: gonzaga

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/25/11 09:12 PM

So should I use a coon or not?.....lol.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/25/11 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: gonzaga
So should I use a coon or not?.....lol.


unsure You get to decide. What a country! thumbup
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/26/11 09:07 AM

If you boys aren't careful you will have your dogs treeing coyotes and decoying coons! Haha!
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/26/11 11:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey
If you boys aren't careful you will have your dogs treeing coyotes and decoying coons! Haha!


or WORSE!!!

This dog was from an experimental breeding that didn't pan out...

Posted by: btech29

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/26/11 11:55 AM

Thats funny Fred. lol
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/26/11 06:11 PM

L M A Off!
Posted by: Dustballs

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/26/11 06:23 PM

That is funny. Is that coon teaching the dog how to fight? Escape a deadly hold maybe.
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/26/11 06:43 PM

You guys are reading way too much into this, clearly this is the start of a wrestling match and the coon can't decide if he is a north or a south paw!
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/26/11 07:44 PM

it's a submission hold.... if the dog don't fight he better know how to stand.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 10/26/11 08:58 PM

Could be a good cross for a Decoy Dog litter. (-:
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 01/25/12 03:01 PM

Just bringing this to the top for illusion. Lots of good info here.
Posted by: JW MORITZ

Re: should you use a coon for training??? - 01/30/12 05:38 PM

Lots of good info here. I own a one and a half year old black lab. He is about 75 lbs and very stocky with alot of unused energy. He never leaves my eyesight when he is outside with me. Would it make any sense to bring him along on a daytime call stand for maybe nothing more than a visual decoy for any incoming coyotes? Would love to have a hunting buddy and get him out of the house.