Gunner/Mattie pups training (Pics and Video)

Posted by: TonyTebbe

Gunner/Mattie pups training (Pics and Video) - 09/15/11 01:27 PM

Took three 6 month old Gunner/Mattie pups out for training on the trapline. I was planning on adding a coyote to the bay pen, but these pups had their own plans. lol Decided to only take the pups, no older dog, to see their reaction if they came across a coyote. They worked the ground hard on the drag, but once they finally got downwind of the coyote...all he!! broke loose. It didn't take them long to kill the coyote.

Here are some video still shots:























Update:

After receiving multiple requests to watch the video, I edited an excerpt of it out to show the grittiness of the two young males. I'm saving the entire video for the DVD.

Warning: The UPDATED video is suited for all audiences, as this is a public forum, it's always sunny outside, and we don't want to ruffle any feathers or fur.



Anyone interested in watching video clips of my dogs can see that at Tony Tebbe's Youtube Channel

Thought I'd share.

Tony
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 01:50 PM

Awsome, Thanks Tony!


Brian
Posted by: SHampton

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 02:04 PM

Oh yeah!!!
Posted by: Boeydafunk

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 04:13 PM

Good to see!
Posted by: btech29

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 05:02 PM

Cool pics Tony. Thanks for posting.
Posted by: altabonita

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 05:05 PM

Very nice.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 06:13 PM

After getting a few requests to watch the video, I decided to post an excerpt of it. I've added it to the end of the original post.

Scott and Brian, your male pups are really turning on. They are far more gritty than Gunner was, at twice their age. I believe I'll be keeping a male from this cross in the future, for myself.

Hope yall enjoy.

Tony
Posted by: btech29

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 06:21 PM

Thats just plain cool Tony. I would buy a DVD of that right there. Great footage.
Posted by: yfzduner450

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 06:30 PM

Tony, those 2 male pups look like they got plenty of teeth!!
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 06:57 PM

Holy Smokes! Mattie threw some serious "Throat Dog" into that pup!
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 06:57 PM

Thanks man. Nice hearing something positive in this forum. smile

Tony
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 07:07 PM

Nice TT. Definately some crushers!

What happened to your paw? Dont look too bad though. Here is my WHOOPS!
Posted by: Uncle_Steve

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 07:45 PM

Very cool, hope Abby will get to be like her half siblings. She loves to tear into the coyote pelt when i drag it around the yard.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 08:51 PM

tony you might need a breakin stick, or this sounds stupid but it does work... the pup that didnt want to let go grab and lift his ear and give a sharp "blow" of air into it. just get your face back cuz he is gonna let go.lol
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/15/11 11:16 PM

Dang Jesse! What happened to your hand?

Steve, It's in her blood. Her full siblings are grittier than all get out here on the ranch. She should do well.

EMT, I just need to work with them more on the drop command. I've got most all the others broke on it, these 6 month olds need alot of work.

There's a whole lot more to that video, outside of this excerpt. Instincts finally took over and the little female finally turned it on and grabbed hold. I was proud of her.

Thanks...Tony
Posted by: Catdawg

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/16/11 12:48 AM

Tony- I don't mean for this to rain on the "positive parade", as that is super cool, but you do realize that you could do that same breeding 20 more times and never get the same results as you are seeing in this litter, right?

I certainly hope you do, but if you're wanting pups like that and have them, it might be time to keep em while the birds are in hand so to speak.

Great post, they look like the right kind for sure.

Take care.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/16/11 12:59 AM

Very good point. I actually have a female pup out of last years crossing, that I am training for a member. She is gritty to the core and has a heck of a good hunting head on her. I was pleased to see the 2nd crossing is consistent, so far. Kicking myself in the butt for not keeping one for myself. smile

Thanks man.

Tony
Posted by: orrbull48

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/16/11 01:53 AM

That pup flat out wanted him some!
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/16/11 02:03 AM

Yeah, that's Duke, who was purchased by Brian (Huntsleepfish), as a weaned pup. He took him back home to Oklahoma for a month or so to be socialized at home with his daughter and son, then brought back here for training till Fall. He's the one that drug the coyote/dog pile into the road on the last video I posted about the Irrigation Coyote, as well. His brother Havoc, is no slouch, but Duke really stands out in the grit department. smile

Tony
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/16/11 07:27 AM

Did just like you did and put my hand in the wrong place! The only coyote involved in mine was the doc who worked on it! Lol.

Great video TT!
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/16/11 10:24 AM

Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey
put my hand in the wrong place!


Ya Jesse, those Knee-Snaps can be dangerous. (-:
Posted by: Boeydafunk

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/16/11 12:30 PM

Just saw the video portion. Good looking pups. I like when your trying to get him off and you cant! Mean little buggar for sure.
DaFUnk
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/18/11 07:03 PM

Yeah, I apologized to Brian via a txt msg, that I broke Duke's collar. After watching the video, he said...that's fine with me! smile My goal over the next 2 weeks is to put a mess of coyotes in these pups faces. They are at a critical point in their age and training.

Thanks...

Tony
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/19/11 09:00 PM

Tony, I'll be the one to say it, cuz I KNOW that many others are thinking it. So here goes...

Although videos like this are representative of what some working dogs do, I must call into question your motives for sharing this type of footage on a public forum. In my opinion, you are only hurting other dogmen by doing so.
There are several dog/hound hunting forums on the internet where sharing this type of footage is BAD juju and not allowed at all to be publicly viewed. To show this footage in order to bolster dogs you sell is bad form.

And for the record, I'm the furthest thing from some pansy azzed libtard animal fanatic, but you really need to step back & consider the pros vs. cons of making this 'training' video public information.

Btw, there are TONS of dogs that will kill a coyote, big friggin' whoop. Anyone can go the the local shelter & find 'em a discarded mutt that'd be happy to oblige.

So when you finish your post with "I though I'd share", I'd suggest you think a little harder next time.
If you don't care about the image you are offering of yourself, at least consider the image you are portraying of other dogmen to those who'd watch your videos. These other dogmen, by that associaton alone, will invariably have to defend your actions in some capacity to the general public. Like they don't have enough problems already!

Nothing personal.

To be perfectly honest, I hope that my post will cause enough stir that the mods will decide to pull this whole thread. It has NO place on a public forum and I think there are more than a few dogmen that are shaking their heads in disgust right now about this.


PS, get a breaking stick & learn how to use it.
Posted by: SHampton

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/19/11 09:55 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Totally disagree with this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posted by: Orneryolfart357

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/19/11 10:00 PM

Its interesting to see different views.. SHampton, why do you disagree?
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/19/11 10:08 PM

This video of 6 month old pups being trained is absolutely no different than video trailers posted in the past of commercial videos showing the same thing, video clips of stag hounds catching and stretching, terriers shaking and killing coons, etc... My motive...simple, showing young dogs with grit early in their career. Nothing more, nothing less. We just had this discussion on another thread, the other day. Not doing it to sell dogs, as they are all already sold.

No wonder noone posts in this forum. Geez!

Tony
Posted by: getfoxy

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/19/11 11:41 PM

Before I start- Nothing personal

I thought about keeping my mouth shut but its hard to do, so heregoes.

Can you guys read what it says a 1 o'clock on the decal? "Kill Clean"?


How can anyone let an animal sit in a leg hold trap while 3 dogs maul it? How is that acceptable at all?

I'll be the first to say I know nothing of coyote hunting with dogs, all this time when I heard of dogs being used for coyote hunting I kinda thought the dog just held the coyote there until you got there to dispatch the animal cleanly and humanely...not like this. There was no sport in this whatsoever, that coyote never had a chance.

Call me soft, a pansy, a liberal IDC, to me this is about as CRUEL, yes I said it, as it gets. Wasnt hunting, wasnt dog traing, it was straight up torture.

But I cant show a picture of a groundhog being blown to pieces by a 55g bullet doint 3500 FPS but Its acceptabe to watch dogs do it?
Posted by: ozzy

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/19/11 11:51 PM

I'll buy the Midol and hand it out, Tony nice job. Some here are getting soft on us.
Posted by: Orneryolfart357

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/19/11 11:52 PM

Good points Gary, looking forward to the rebuttle. Im sure that there will be a few. A leghold trap does add some advantage to the Dogs that may be chasing it.
Posted by: Orneryolfart357

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 12:05 AM

Leg holds mean nothing. Its all about the kill.
Posted by: Dead Down Wind

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 01:39 AM

I love the posts that start out - Nothing personal but?!!!

A person conversing with/towards a person would be "personal" or am i missing something?


I think i read a disclaimer at the beginning of the video for the weak of heart, children and all bedwetters should use viewing discretion prior to watching the video.

Tony does give fair warning and you watched it anyway!!

I dont remember Tony stating the video was 6 month old puppies frolicking in a bed of roses with a sweet little coyote enjoying and ice cold beer.

They were pups in training, yes training!!!

Good Job Tony!!!
Posted by: Boeydafunk

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 03:22 AM

I dont post here that often but check on here everyday and have been a member for a few years. Im of the opinion that Tony had a video that he wanted to share. He did say that the video could be graffic and then shared the video. Good for him. Next, who the [beeep] are you to say what he should or should not share. If you dont like it dont watch it and dont talk about it. Thanks for bringing nothing but a bad attitude to the thread.

Keep it up TT. Ill keep watching them!
Posted by: Boeydafunk

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 03:26 AM

Forgot so state one more thing. Antis are antis. Tony cant hurt the image of any dog men for the antis, as they all already hate us. As for the general public, im sure their not trolling around looking for a video of a trapped coyote anyway!
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 04:42 AM

Quote:
Keep it up TT. Ill keep watching them!


Thanks, but I believe I am done posting in the Hounds Forum for a while. I've heard more whining here on just about every post I've made or has been made about me. Where I grew up, we sat around the campfire, listening to the old men tell stories, while we listened to the foxhounds on some good races. Not once, in all those years, did one of them talk smack about each other. Talking smack about a man or, more importantly, his dogs would have gotten one's block knocked off. Guess it's easier sit behind the safety of a keyboard and take shots. That's probably why this is the deadest forum on the whole website. Don't look for me to be adding activity here.

Tony
Posted by: ARCOREY

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 07:49 AM

I bet decoy dogs and recovery dogs are hard to train with a Flambeau decoy of a coyote smirk
Posted by: Hidenseekpro

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:21 AM

Foxy, nothing personal but,

This is taken directly from the NMDGF proclamation, the synopsis of New Mexico hunting regs:

"Furbearers may be taken with dogs, firearms, bows and arrows and traps and snares. Calls, including mechanically or electrically recorded calling devices, are legal in hunting protected furbearers. Dogs may be used to take protected furbearers only during open trapping season..."

Foxy, I know you're only 20 or so, but what that passage above means is that you can use the dogs, just like a gun, to kill a furbearer. That's how dogs do it. You don't issue them all little guns to kill the coyote. They grab it with their mouths and shake and/or crush various parts of it until it's dead. Young dogs do well with a bit of an advantage, like the leg hold, to help get the idea. They also typically work in groups, just like coyotes do.

Your reaction to a perfectly legal means of take is precisely why most of the guys in this forum, and others pertaining to hunting with dogs, are so secretive and the motivation behind the other post pleading for the mods. to pull the entire thread. I had a lot more to say, but I'll leave it at that
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:35 AM

You guys either get it, or you don't. It's not about legality.

Find me another dog hunting site ANYWHERE on the Internet that allows this type of footage to be publilcly viewable.
Simple fact is, there aren't any...and for very good reasons. If you can't figure them out, contact the site owners & ask them why graphic vids are not condoned.

It's not about gettin' soft, or being a pansy. It's about keeping the 'wet work' that we all know happens out of the spotlight. This is the world we live in, and as dogmen, we have to act in our own best interests of self preservation! I didn't make it that way, I'm just tellin' ya how it is. No need to make it any easier for the bunnyhuggers who will twist this stuff against us. If you can't see that as truth, then you are misinformed, at best. And at worst, an outright idiot...

If the dogs were already sold, then email the vids to the new owners. I'm sure they'll be pleased. Killing a coyote has nothing to do with 'decoying' anyway, but that's neither here nor there. And killing a 20lb. desert coyote in a trap ain't gonna help much with the 50 lb. brutes a dog may encounter in this neck o' the woods. That prized 'grit' will get you a stack of vet bills, or worse, a dead dog. But that's getting sidetracked again & has nothing to do with actually 'decoying' coyotes...

On a public forum, there is a fine line between showing 'grit' and going beyond the context of good judgement. Anyone with 1/2 a brain can put 2+2 together & figure what all happened without the video blow by blow, from soup to nuts. A little woolin' after the fact is fine, we all can deduce the rest...

Don't get me wrong, I've seen in person WAAY worse, so this isn't about going soft. It's about doing right by other dogmen who don't need the kind of attention this crap draws.

So turn your nose at me, flip me off & cheer the pups on all ya want, but there is NOTHING good that can come from showing this footage on a public forum. Fact is, I cheer for plenty of dogs where it is appropriate to do so. Heck, I cheer for my own pup in real life! But I ain't about to share the nitty gritty viddy of it on a public forum! Rather, I think it's best for EVERYONE to leave that in the field where these things happen. No sense in glorifying it to the point of members rejoicing for more...

That ain't right on a public forum.

And if I am the one who is waaay off base here, then please let me know. For those who'd like to see more of these videos, please explain WHAT GOOD is to come of sharing them on a public forum?





Posted by: knockemdown

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:39 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
Quote:
Keep it up TT. Ill keep watching them!


Thanks, but I believe I am done posting in the Hounds Forum for a while. I've heard more whining here on just about every post I've made or has been made about me. Where I grew up, we sat around the campfire, listening to the old men tell stories, while we listened to the foxhounds on some good races. Not once, in all those years, did one of them talk smack about each other. Talking smack about a man or, more importantly, his dogs would have gotten one's block knocked off. Guess it's easier sit behind the safety of a keyboard and take shots. That's probably why this is the deadest forum on the whole website. Don't look for me to be adding activity here.

Tony


Tony, with all due respect. Where I grew up, dogmen kept the business of their dogs & themselves OUT OF THE PUBLIC SPOTLIGHT.
Posted by: getfoxy

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 09:44 AM

I never said it wasnt LEGAL, I just dont agree with it. I have dogs, I have had Walker Hounds, Black and Tans, had a Plott. right now I have a mountain Cur, I was raised with the mindset of killing the animal clean and quickly There was no reason whatsoever that coyote needed to go through all of that....IDC about keeping it out of the spotlight or not...that was rediculous
Tony can take it personal if he wishes, fine by be, Its called an opinion.

And the discalimer thing? I cant post a disclaimer of a picture filled with blood and guts so why is it ok to post a disclaimer of this? Disclaimer means nothing.
Posted by: altabonita

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:11 AM

Originally Posted By: knockemdown
Tony, I'll be the one to say it, cuz I KNOW that many others are thinking it. So here goes...




Maybe you should have said it in a PM.
Posted by: pahntr760

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:25 AM

Here is a good question for you all. Who amount us would tie the leg of one of our dogs off and let 3 coyotes have at it!??!

I think it is one thing to have "recovery" dogs. This, to me, means to help find a wounded or poorly hit coyote. Not to kill a tied up coyote with 3 dogs.

This is just MY OPINION. Nothing more or less! Everyone is entitled to their own. And this is a public forum that accepts every aspect of said opinions.
Posted by: yotesmokerkennels

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:49 AM

Awesome vid dogs are super gritty
Posted by: orrbull48

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 11:21 AM

[quote=knockemdown]
Find me another dog hunting site ANYWHERE on the Internet that allows this type of footage to be publilcly viewable.
Simple fact is, there aren't any...and for very good reasons. If you can't figure them out, contact the site owners & ask them why graphic vids are not condoned.


i see videos all the time on TV of dogs on hogs, how is this any different?
Posted by: Workman

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 11:52 AM

Lots of sensitive folks out there. I think the line, "You either get it or you don't" fits pretty well here. Dog work isn't for everyone.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 12:07 PM

Originally Posted By: altabonita
Originally Posted By: knockemdown
Tony, I'll be the one to say it, cuz I KNOW that many others are thinking it. So here goes...




Maybe you should have said it in a PM.



ABSOLUTELY! knockemdown, you have done nothing with your post but give the ANTI's your so worried about more fodder. Way to draw a line between hunters, on a PUBLIC forum, if that was your goal nice job. EVERYTHING you say could have (and should have) been posted in a PM. It acomplishes the same thing, you voicing your opinion. Tony didnt post anything illegal, like it or not, you chose to watch it. Tell me, what good comes from what you've started. I swear ,some people...... Maybe the "Houndsmen" needs to be removed and just make the forum Lions & Bears. Whats next, the Trapping forum? No posting pics of animals in traps, it offends the anti's. No posting pics of dead critters, it offends the anti's. Whats the point? Our breathing offends the anti's. You are entitled to you opinion, but sometimes not everyone needs to hear it. Later.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 12:10 PM

I respect the opinions of others. I would have no pride in posting a video clip of 3 adult dogs working over a trapped coyote. This was 6 month old pups in training, no adult dog with them. I understand if it wasn't your cup of tea, but how else do you think coyote dogs get trained? If you think killing a coyote has absolutely nothing to do with decoying, then you better start hunting with poodles.

As orrbull48, said, just watch TV or do a search on youtube for hog dogs, if you want to see similar action.

I updated the video with a more appropriate version for the forum.

Tony
Posted by: ARCOREY

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 12:29 PM

My P.C. has officially become too P.C. lately for me. When is the silly season officially over anyways?
Posted by: pahntr760

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 12:50 PM

I see no difference in using an adult dog or 6 month old ones. The coyote was tethered. It's not sporting, or respectful to the coyote. Training or not. That's like letting 3 bullies beat up a kid that has been tied up. I just don't see why this is necessary. Especially posted for all of the anti-whom Evers to get ahold of. Then WE (hunters in general) will be the foothold dog and THEY (anti whomever) will be the gang of hounds.

How would you feel if Mr Roosevelt would have shot the tied up bear? Just saying.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 12:59 PM

Originally Posted By: pahntr760
I see no difference in using an adult dog or 6 month old ones. The coyote was tethered. It's not sporting, or respectful to the coyote. Training or not. That's like letting 3 bullies beat up a kid that has been tied up. I just don't see why this is necessary. Especially posted for all of the anti-whom Evers to get ahold of. Then WE (hunters in general) will be the foothold dog and THEY (anti whomever) will be the gang of hounds.

How would you feel if Mr Roosevelt would have shot the tied up bear? Just saying.



I suppose you think coon dogs are trained without a tethered coon, at some point in their training?
Posted by: Workman

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 01:07 PM

Comparing hunting/killing/torturing coyotes to a kid suffering is ridiculous! Coyotes are vermin, without protection and sanction for that reason. If you don't want this to take place then fine, but complaining about it on a site dedicated to that end is going to get nothing accomplished.

Since you mentioned Teddy Roosevelt, you should know that he coursed (ran) coyotes with greyhounds/staghounds as a sportsman. If the video here bothered you, then you don't want to see a few charged up sighthounds catch and kill a coyote. Our great Conservation leader had no problem with it, since he saw it from a rancher's perspective and didn't have to endure the lovey-dovey PC garbage that we are all spoon fed.
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 01:15 PM

Ok, lets see here. Honestly, If TT was the only one sharing these type of videos, they yeah, may be wrong. but there was nothing here that couldnt be found millions of times on youtube or hunting videos. If they are looking for it, they will find it.

Sure, lots of dogs will kill a yote. Mine will. But that doesnt mean that a guy cant be proud of a dog when he does, and want to show it off.

As far as yotes in a foot hold trap, i dont do it myself, but i do things pretty close to it. Maybe even worse in some of you guys's oppinion. There may not be a whole lot of what you would call sport in letting dogs kill a traped yote, but trapping that yote to let the dogs kill sure is "sporty"
Posted by: pahntr760

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 01:18 PM

Running game and letting a gang of dogs simply maul a tied up animal are totally different. That like people bragging about huge deer killed in a high fence operation. It's not the same.

What would happen to those pups if that was the neighbors lab on a tie-out chain? I'm most certain they would have been taken and euthanized.

Now if this was a video of his pups latching onto a wounded coyote that was still free to run, if able, that would be different. I just don't see the need for a tethered coyote, bear, cat, coon, or any other animal.

I train bird dogs. I do realize there is a big gap between bird dogs and coyote dog, surly, but it's dog training. Their instincts are what drive them to do what they do. Training is so they (dog) do what WE want them to do. And for the record, i don't condone using folded winged birds or launchers either. It's un necessary.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 01:24 PM

Originally Posted By: pahntr760
What would happen to those pups if that was the neighbors lab on a tie-out chain?


They'd probably sniff butts and wanna play. They aren't wild killers of anything hooked up... good grief. Its TRAINING. Whatever, I'm done with this.
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 01:34 PM

I have seen many bird's winged, fall and flop in the water to be mauled by a lab until the hunter gets it from him, then they stick it in a vest. Different?

Well, i have learned something here. Next time im trying to train a dog, ill just gut shoot it so it cant run far, but still fight back, and then go get the dogs, let them chase it a wile, then when they catch it, they can try to kill it. If it doesnt slip away, and run a few hundred yards more to be faught again.

Get over it, the coyote is dead. This convo. started out as simply not showing what we do publicly to now its wrong to do it in the first place.
Posted by: altabonita

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: pahntr760
Here is a good question for you all. Who amount us would tie the leg of one of our dogs off and let 3 coyotes have at it!??!


Who amongst us hunts dogs? I guess you would make the same agrument about dogs and coons or dogs and hogs.
Posted by: altabonita

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 01:49 PM

Originally Posted By: pahntr760
Running game and letting a gang of dogs simply maul a tied up animal are totally different. That like people bragging about huge deer killed in a high fence operation. It's not the same.



Off topic, but have you hunted a high fenced ranch before? They are common here in Texas. I can tell you there is not much difference in hunting 10,000 acres high fenced or 10,000 acres low fenced.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By: pahntr760
Now if this was a video of his pups latching onto a wounded coyote that was still free to run, if able, that would be different.



I guess you're lookin at this from a completly different view. You would send your pup in to fight a wounded coyote, if he's free to run, he can get all over your pup, possibly killing it. All for what OJT?
OR would you rather have your pup gain some experience and confidence, in a somewhat controled enviroment, so when he does have to fight and kill that cripple that ran a half mile, at least he knows what to do. I'll take the latter. When I finally cover that half mile and catch up I'd much rather see my pup standin there, vs him layin there and the yote gone off to die a slow death from the infection you caused by woundin him in the first place.

I agree, 3 adult dogs maulin a trapped yote is not to what anyone wants to see, but TT clearly stated these are 6 month old pups in training. Therefore, everything I said above makes sense. (At least to me)
Posted by: pahntr760

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 02:22 PM

Ok,BA couple of questions or comments to answer.

High Fences are ok, IMHO, for species that would otherwise be evasive or hazardous to the general habitat. IE: hogs or exotics. Not general native (historically) big game. That's where I stand on that.

A bird dog going after a downed bird is the same as a coyote recovery, already said above as views ok, again, IMHO.

These are just my views on this type of "training". At the end of the day, your right, dead coyote, coon, what have you.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 02:42 PM

You guys are exactly right, I could have PM'ed my opinion to Tony.
But I don't apologize for not doing so. The video was here plain as day, so I addressed it as such...

Before posting, I knew full well that I'd prolly catch heck for it. But I also know that there are several others reading along that absolutely WILL NOT post on this topic, yet share the same opinion. I'm just the 'bad guy' for stepping up & airing it out. So be it...

Sure, if you look on youtube, you prolly can find all kinds of wild azzed videos with dogs. But that doesn't make sharing them the RIGHT thing to do. Youtube aside, most dog hunting sites shun those who'd post video of this nature on the public portion of their sites, if not outright pull them. They don't want the attention & I'm not alone in that opinion. Does the saying "flying under the radar" hold any creedence with you guys???

So agree to disagree. If you think it's fine for that to be public, I won't comment any further on that.

Originally Posted By: Tony Tebbe
If you think killing a coyote has absolutely nothing to do with decoying, then you better start hunting with poodles.



I'm glad you brought that up, Tony. I had the pleasure of watching over four straight hours of decoy dog action on video this past weekend. These two indivudual dogs worked alone & were like nothing I have EVER seen! And not ONCE did they put a tooth to a coyote, 'cept in self defense when outnumbered 3 or 4 to one.
When that happened, fur FLEW and those dogs had GRIT in spades! But the amazing part of the footage is that they used their brains to get multiple coyotes within spitball distance of the hunter, time & time again. Stand after stand. Multiple coyotes within FEET of the hunter. And when one got popped, there was no wooling, that dog went out & brought the other coyotes back in again. It was absolutely amazing, and if I hadn't seen it with my very own eyes, I'd be calling BS that it were even possible! Too bad that hunter would never share that stuff here, but I sure feel privileged to have seen it. I sure wish my dog will grow to have 1/10th that savvy. I seriously doubt it, but a guy's gotta dream! And I could give a chit less if he can kill a coyote, cuz that's MY job, the guy with the gun smile Opinions will differ there, too...

Anyway, given the extremely close range and 'gimme' shot opportunities those two extraordinary decoy dogs allowed the hunter, there was little/no need for the dog to 'finish' anything. Not once in all that footage, actually. No messy cleanup, and that is a testament to the hunter performing his duty on the gun. Easy schmeasy shots!

Since you are guiding hunters day & night who may, or may not be, straight shooters, I can see the need for a 'recovery dog'. But don't mistake that with what I perceive to be what decoying coyotes is all about. If I had consistently poor shooters wounding coyotes left & right, then I'd probably want to put more emphasis on breeding that type of dog too. To each, his own. And again, a sidetrack, but only cuz you brought it up...

I realize I won't sway anyone in their opinion. However, the arguement that my shared opinion is somehow ammo for antis is HOGWASH.
I"ve got NO PROBLEM with the content itself.
Again, the problem I have is that it's being shared on a publicly viewable forum.
That IS NOT doing dogmen any kind of service whatsoever.

Doing what's right is usually always right.
And what IS right for you may not be right for others in a similar position.

So then, why not err on the side of discretion & consideration for other dogmen & leave this stuff out of public view? If you want to get your rocks off watching this kinda stuff, then it's already been pointed out that you can surf youtube for it. Or buy a video. But then again, isn't that partly the reason for sharing the video in the 1st place?



Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 02:58 PM

It's all cool Fred. You shared plenty of information in the above post for me to fully understand exactly what this is about and parties involved.

No worries, you won't be seeing any videos...of any kind posted in this sub forum from me. The sub forum can go back to it's normal pace. (insert Yawn here)

Tony
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 03:10 PM

Originally Posted By: knockemdown
I realize I won't sway anyone in their opinion. However, the arguement that my shared opinion is somehow ammo for antis is HOGWASH.


Imagine that, YOUR opinion of someonelses opinion, is all that matters, otherwise its HOGWASH. I'd say your opinionated, good for you.
Posted by: orrbull48

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 03:12 PM

I just wanna be a care bear too TT..haha funny stuff
Posted by: yfzduner450

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 03:26 PM

Originally Posted By: knockemdown

Before posting, I knew full well that I'd prolly catch heck for it. But I also know that there are several others reading along that absolutely WILL NOT post on this topic, yet share the same opinion. I'm just the 'bad guy' for stepping up & airing it out. So be it...


Fred, I think you did the right thing, you shared your opinion!!! Some of which I agree with and some which I don't. I for one like to see dog work whether it is P.C or not but I understand your point on this. I think the conflict started because of WHO posted the video. Everytime anyone disagrees with Tony, his group of followers are the first ones to take shots. I've been the "bad guy" a few times in the past and ive just learned that I will do what I will do and others will do the same. In the end it doesn't effect my life so who cares.
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 03:49 PM

yfz, I really don't have anything against Tony, but its obvious that others do and have taken potshots at him in the past. That is not what this is about...

So, for the record, I'm not "Tony bashing", and don't hold any animosity toward him, or his endeavors as it might appear to his friends, clients or whomever. If it where any other member who posted that video, my opinion would be similarly shared...

If your dogs make you happy, then enjoy them for what they are. But I'll maintain that a little discretion goes a long way when sharing about there skill set. I know I certainly won't be putting anymore links up here for that very reason & have since removed whatever I'd posted here in the past, just in case. I've got nothing to sell or offer anyone here, and there's no sense in sharing that stuff with those I can't agree with anyway...

take care
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 04:09 PM

Knockemdown, no hard fealings here. Everyone has their right to their own opp. As i said before, this isnt really anything that the anti's havnt seen before. Do i think they need to be seing this type of stuff? No, but this isnt the first, nor will it be the last time its been made public.

Kindof like major league baseball trying to hide the fact that ball players are using roids, we all know, its no new thing! lol.

Its true that this sub forum is full of contravorcy. Some of it is nesicary, some is not. That is a simple fact of dogmen, when we get together, our opps will vary, and we will let each other know. There are some who take shots at every opertunity they see on certain people, and its a shame that they do, because all that does is makes it so when a person has an honest dissagreement with the way somone does something, not just because of who they are, it causes a huge riot, and then when you post your opp, you are "choosing sides" and now you are a dink!

I also dont think people need to stand up for someone just because they are your buddy. I personaly have dissagreed with just about everyone on this board at one point or another. I have also agreed with almost everyone on here. The simple fact is if i have a opp based on my experience, that i know what im talking about, i will share. If i dont know anything about it, i will shut up, or of course, make jokes! But i will not run to a buddy's rescue and say i think he is wright, and argue over something that i truly dont know. That happens way too much in my opp.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 05:17 PM

Like I said guys, it's all good. I posted a video clip of pups baying and killing a trapped coyote. I've seen the very same video clips posted in the past, with alot more dogs and alot older ones. Never saw an controversy over those postings, so I thought I'd be good to go. All I was wanting to do is show some grit, as it was pointed out that I had some dogs that lacked enough grit. Was wanting to show why my breeding program is producing.

Again, it's all good.

Tony
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 05:30 PM

Originally Posted By: knockemdown
Tony, I'll be the one to say it, cuz I KNOW that many others are thinking it. So here goes...

Although videos like this are representative of what some working dogs do, I must call into question your motives for sharing this type of footage on a public forum. In my opinion, you are only hurting other dogmen by doing so.
There are several dog/hound hunting forums on the internet where sharing this type of footage is BAD juju and not allowed at all to be publicly viewed. To show this footage in order to bolster dogs you sell is bad form.

And for the record, I'm the furthest thing from some pansy azzed libtard animal fanatic, but you really need to step back & consider the pros vs. cons of making this 'training' video public information.

Btw, there are TONS of dogs that will kill a coyote, big friggin' whoop. Anyone can go the the local shelter & find 'em a discarded mutt that'd be happy to oblige.

So when you finish your post with "I though I'd share", I'd suggest you think a little harder next time.
If you don't care about the image you are offering of yourself, at least consider the image you are portraying of other dogmen to those who'd watch your videos. These other dogmen, by that associaton alone, will invariably have to defend your actions in some capacity to the general public. Like they don't have enough problems already!

Nothing personal.

To be perfectly honest, I hope that my post will cause enough stir that the mods will decide to pull this whole thread. It has NO place on a public forum and I think there are more than a few dogmen that are shaking their heads in disgust right now about this.


PS, get a breaking stick & learn how to use it.

I think the best advise was the advise given here. We have to police ourselves or we will be with out our privelages. The "Bunny huggers" eat this stuff up and use it against us. Look at Washington, Oregon, Califonia, Colorado. The Bunny huggers came armed with stuff just like this and it was very appealing to the bleeding hearts and we lost our right to hunt. No it may not be against the law but show this to the public and it soon will be.
This was in poor taste for Tony to do something like this, he as a bussiness owner should not be drawing this kind of attention to him , his family or his bussiness. Did he show him dispatching a coyote with a stick in the last video? No. Why not? Poor taste.....Same here. Show a little class to yourself and your sport and your fellow sportsmen.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 05:55 PM

Let me add that this is not an attack on Tony, because I think we have all been guilty of posting pictures on public forums that we shouldn't have. This is a good topic to disguss. And it should not be taken personal Tony. I am as quilty of showing something like this and I will be the first to admitt it was in Poor taste and I should not have done it. So I think we all need to learn from this and be more careful in what we want to give to our Enemies.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 07:01 PM

Several have stopped posting.

Should we all just stop posting these gruesome, killing, pics, vids, and stories?

If everyone stops posting this gruesome stuff, how are we going to be able to critique til our hearts content?

BTW: Sorry about that dead animal in my Avatar. )-: I'll get on that.


Now, I'm getting over to that Optics Forum and talk about some Sparkly, Clean, Clear, Shiny Glass.

Oh and "Nothing Personal."
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 07:46 PM

There is a big difference between a bear being taken and a coyote in a trap being killed by dogs with no exscape. There is even a big difference between dogs killing a coyote and a coyote in a trap being killed by dogs. If you can not understand that then maybe you should go over to the Optic Forum and talk shiny glass.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 07:51 PM

Yes, the difference is obvious. Thanks for pointing that out. (-:

Sorry I forgot to point out the Satire of that post. I thought all who have stopped posting pics would relate. Again sorry.

BTW: I like shiny glass. The Optics Forum is a great place for those of us who don't want to see pics of dogs biting critters. (-:
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 07:58 PM

Tony, I also want you to stop posting those cute puppy pics. That promotion of an American business is so grossly capitalistic it gets on my nerves.

{more satire)
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:06 PM

Ya your pretty funny. Like I said this is a pretty good post to dicuss, but guys that can not take it serious and see what things like this has done to other States, well they will see it some day when their hunting Rights have been taken away.
Nobody is talking about taking the pictures off or not telling the stories, but just like when Tony didn't show himself killing the coyote with the stick he should have just cut the video a little short.
I know alot of regs say the use of dogs is legal but when it come to the leagality of killing the animal with dogs, I bet you will loose in a court of law.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Devin69
Ya your pretty funny.


Thanks. No charge for the humor. (-:

And thanks for the legal advice.

All joking aside, I agree with you that this is a good topic for discussion. However, I don't think that the Antis and Libs can be pacified by hiding what we do from them. I say take 'em on head to head, sitck 'em in the eye.

I could be wrong though.

Do you all think we can find consensus if we compromise/hide with/from these PETA, FOA and other misguided folks who are after our right to hunt, shoot, and defend ourselves?

Sorry, I've just had one of those days working for the government and another board of directors and am feeling the need to STIR it. LOL

But I did have a great weekend bear and wolf watching in the park. But that's another story.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:31 PM

I guess you don't understand how this thing works, do you? You are not taking on just the Bunny huggars you are taking on the whole public, they have to vote on it to see if it goes to congress. They just take the ammo( that you gave to them) to the public and the public sees this stuff and they side with the bunny huggars , NOT YOU. YOU LOOSE. Sorry.
It is true we don't need to hide the fact that we are hunting and taking animals with dogs, but we don't need to post graffic pictures.
I have sex with my wife but I sure the he// am not going to take a video of it to prove myself to anyone. Some things just do not need to be shown on a public forum.
We as hunters do not need to give ammo to the anti groups, make it harder for them to prove.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:33 PM

.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:34 PM

Oh by the way...more Satire...I never have found you to be funny.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:42 PM

You make a good point. Do you think that the general public, non hunters, are seeing the stuff posted here?

BTW: I have never found you to have much of a sense of humor or a taste for Satire. But then again I don't really know you and shouldn't make such a rash judgement. In any case a lack of appreciation of Satire doesn't make you a bad person. (-:

I did really enjoy your posts back when you were starting topics and putting up pictures. I for one found a lot of valuable information. I think I learned some things. Sorry you only reply now.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:47 PM

The posts you made posing discussion questions about decoy dog training and best characteristics still rank for me as some of the useful topics on this forum.

And speaking of sex...let's not forget those great "bucket sex" pics. (-:

Any chance you might reconsider your no posting pics etc. policy?

Not Satire. (-:
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 08:53 PM

You are missing the whole point. The Public and non hunters will see this. The Anti's veiw these forums like crows searching for something dead. They will take this stuff to the public, you can bet your farm on it. They look for this stuff to help their cause, and Tony without knowing it just gave them a big boost. That is why it is so important for us to talk about it so we can educate everyone. And not give them the ammo they need.
Do you want to help them or would you like to Cripple them? Give them graffic photos or video and you have helped them.
Take a photo like you have done with your trophy but you dont need to have dogs hanging off it, have the dogs in the photo with you, show them baying it up maybe a nip here and there but when it gets graffic then stop the photo.
Answer this question...should Tony should have shown the part in the video of him killing the coyote with a stick? Or was he right in turning the camera off and then showing the coyote dead?
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 09:02 PM

Point taken. Well said. I knew you had it in you.

That was fun.

PM sent.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 09:18 PM

After all the grief and such, Devin posted a very well laid out explanation and discussion. Well done sir. I have now removed the video clip from public eye on youtube. I originally loaded the video to only show the owners of the 2 young dogs in the video, but had decided to post it after Devin's discussion on not enough grit in the dogs on my prior video. Due to his professional delivery of his last post, Devin's points are well taken.

Thanks...Tony
Posted by: ARCOREY

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 09:23 PM

I may be way off base here, but what's new. We have been saturated with political correctness to the point of doing what's right feels bad, even though we are in the right. This has been done slowly over the years by those that oppose our sport. We have prominent members of our hunting forum changing their avatars and pulling postings as well as lashing out at each other over dead coyotes. The common goal we all seek in one way or another. What's to say that we cannot reverse the political correctness with slow, gradual saturation of our own. How many animals do you see on the roads with the guts mashed out of them? No PETA protests there. Do it with a rifle or trap or dog to a degree of less suffering and bam, protest. As humans we are use to seeing death and can handle it, our society has deemed when it is necessary and when it is not according to popular demand. A picture here, video there, hunter charity event and we're back where things came from and where they belong. We are the original conservationist and do more charity to humans and animals than any other group. Admittedly, divided we will fail, and the task at hand is no small one. We gave up a necessary way of life for grocery stores and political correctness and ease of life as a society. There are no natural vegetarian humans, we all came from hunter gatherers, we're naturally omnivores. We do both, not one or the other. Coyotes were clothes and barter goods, now they are sport animals for the most part.

I think with good information comes education. I have asked in the past, how do you make a dog do what it does and be so obedient. I have seen this first hand and in video. I now have a new respect for dog handlers I didn't have before hunting with one. Maybe I'm getting soft as I get older, but I seem to be trying a lot of shoes on these days before walking a mile in any and worrying less about what anybody else thinks about my tastes. We all have moral obligations and luckily they are different levels for all of us. This is the best collective group of hunters I've ever seen, and sometimes the most dramatic. The drama comes from the passions we all have for our sport in our own ways which vary from time to time. Unfortunatly we are use to defending it tooth and nail, even if it is against our own bretheren. I have had good dealings with many parties involved in this thread and many of these parties have been charitable toward me and kind. What has been displayed here is unfortunate and all that participated including myself have lost a little something. Hopefully these things will settle as well as the many other threads posted on this site lately and things will get back to normal once everyone is too busy stacking fur to post much more than pictures and good conversation about what is one of the greatest sports many of us have ever enjoyed.

Just my relections looking back. Good night all and good hunting however you do it.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 09:23 PM

Again Tony, I was disappointed with the cross I made. It had nothing to do with you. I guess I should have shut my mouth. I think you are well on your way to making some outstanding dogs but you don't have to prove it to anyone on here. If someone wants to see a video of the grit send it to them on a pm or better yet make them wait till you put out a video. lol I hope you keep posting on here, I for one enjoy seeing and reading your stories.
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 09:34 PM

Great Post ARCORNEY. But I disagree with this part:

Originally Posted By: ARCOREY
What has been displayed here is unfortunate and all that participated including myself have lost a little something.


When I first joined PredatorMasters I was pretty thin skinned and was often offended by the vigorous banter that would occur. I still cringe a little at the personal attacks that sometimes occur but have come to understand that much good can come from the spirited debate that happens here. Any serious educator knows that nothing promotes serious thought like debate. And reading and writing are the birth and life of thinking and learning.

I don't think this thread has been unfortunate or a loss for anyone. In fact I feel I have gained a great deal here tonight.

I hope all members will continue to put it up here, make and defend you point with an open mind.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 09:41 PM

Originally Posted By: ARCOREY
I may be way off base here, but what's new. We have been saturated with political correctness to the point of doing what's right feels bad, even though we are in the right. This has been done slowly over the years by those that oppose our sport. We have prominent members of our hunting forum changing their avatars and pulling postings as well as lashing out at each other over dead coyotes. The common goal we all seek in one way or another. What's to say that we cannot reverse the political correctness with slow, gradual saturation of our own. How many animals do you see on the roads with the guts mashed out of them? No PETA protests there. Do it with a rifle or trap or dog to a degree of less suffering and bam, protest. As humans we are use to seeing death and can handle it, our society has deemed when it is necessary and when it is not according to popular demand. A picture here, video there, hunter charity event and we're back where things came from and where they belong. We are the original conservationist and do more charity to humans and animals than any other group. Admittedly, divided we will fail, and the task at hand is no small one. We gave up a necessary way of life for grocery stores and political correctness and ease of life as a society. There are no natural vegetarian humans, we all came from hunter gatherers, we're naturally omnivores. We do both, not one or the other. Coyotes were clothes and barter goods, now they are sport animals for the most part.

I think with good information comes education. I have asked in the past, how do you make a dog do what it does and be so obedient. I have seen this first hand and in video. I now have a new respect for dog handlers I didn't have before hunting with one. Maybe I'm getting soft as I get older, but I seem to be trying a lot of shoes on these days before walking a mile in any and worrying less about what anybody else thinks about my tastes. We all have moral obligations and luckily they are different levels for all of us. This is the best collective group of hunters I've ever seen, and sometimes the most dramatic. The drama comes from the passions we all have for our sport in our own ways which vary from time to time. Unfortunatly we are use to defending it tooth and nail, even if it is against our own bretheren. I have had good dealings with many parties involved in this thread and many of these parties have been charitable toward me and kind. What has been displayed here is unfortunate and all that participated including myself have lost a little something. Hopefully these things will settle as well as the many other threads posted on this site lately and things will get back to normal once everyone is too busy stacking fur to post much more than pictures and good conversation about what is one of the greatest sports many of us have ever enjoyed.

Just my relections looking back. Good night all and good hunting however you do it.
In a fairy tale world this would be great but what most do not understand is peta,the human socity, wild earth gaurdians are putting up millions and millions of dollars every year to fight us and look at us here on this board ...We can't even agree on something simple.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 09:49 PM


Answer this question...should Tony should have shown the part in the video of him killing the coyote with a stick? Or was he right in turning the camera off and then showing the coyote dead? [/quote]

tony is promoting/selling dogs,its part of his lively hood.tony stated "these dogs are spoken for" but the other 3 litters on the ground ain't. wink or any future pups from the tebbe compound. as far as i'm concerned tony hasn't showed a vid that his dogs have dispatched...one dog or three, nothing but leg held coyotes or coyotes that have taken a bullet.(which JMHO) there doing there job.i have never owned a cur (had coon hounds) but in my book his dogs are not gritty either, but they bay and hold marinal hit coyotes.thats there job plain and simple, the vids i have seen strenght comes in numbers. did anyone notice besides me that coyote was getting face barked until human intervention (went in grabbed the chain)tony(alpha pack leader) showed the young pups its ok... i would of bet they wouldn't of got any closer if tony didn't shake things up a bit.
tony lives in a coyote mecca, he has the opportunity to show alot of coyotes to his dogs or clients dogs which is a HUGE plus.his reputation will speak louder than any vid... with time.

getting back to devins question, shut the camera down when the fur starts to fly or even to much harassing by a baying dog.(internet purposes only)
Posted by: ARCOREY

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Devin69
[quote=ARCOREY]In a fairy tale world this would be great but what most do not understand is peta,the human socity, wild earth gaurdians are putting up millions and millions of dollars every year to fight us and look at us here on this board ...We can't even agree on something simple.

We pay 10 times that in license revenues and sporting goods fees annually. Shut it off for six months and fifi the poodle and fluffy the cat cease to exist nationwide. Car crash fatalities due to wildlife climb and animal populations soar. Basically we'd be armpit deep in fur. Coyotes already run the streets of NY and California, the two most liberal states around, both of which have predator hunting now. What would it be like without our portion of the management? Government can't afford to address it, we can't keep intruding humans out of our towns. Proper education, which existed as recently as 20 years ago, addressed the misinformation. We're just not focused, that is the problem. This fairy tale has existed in my short lifetime, we let it get away from us as a group.

The unfortunate part I mention is not that this whole debate aired, and not that it aired infront of anti hunters, but that words among people enjoying similar likes have gotten to the point that permanent damage may be remembered by several parties. I hope that I'm wrong in this assessment as that would be unfortunate as many of those posting have made and still have great contributions to make to our sport.
Posted by: btech29

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:09 PM

Originally Posted By: ARCOREY
Originally Posted By: Devin69
[quote=ARCOREY]In a fairy tale world this would be great but what most do not understand is peta,the human socity, wild earth gaurdians are putting up millions and millions of dollars every year to fight us and look at us here on this board ...We can't even agree on something simple.

We pay 10 times that in license revenues and sporting goods fees annually. Shut it off for six months and fifi the poodle and fluffy the cat cease to exist nationwide. Car crash fatalities due to wildlife climb and animal populations soar. Basically we'd be armpit deep in fur. Coyotes already run the streets of NY and California, the two most liberal states around, both of which have predator hunting now. What would it be like without our portion of the management? Government can't afford to address it, we can't keep intruding humans out of our towns. Proper education, which existed as recently as 20 years ago, addressed the misinformation. We're just not focused, that is the problem. This fairy tale has existed in my short lifetime, we let it get away from us as a group.

The unfortunate part I mention is not that this whole debate aired, and not that it aired infront of anti hunters, but that words among people enjoying similar likes have gotten to the point that permanent damage may be remembered by several parties. I hope that I'm wrong in this assessment as that would be unfortunate as many of those posting have made and still have great contributions to make to our sport.


X2 Hunting aint going nowhere in my lifetime. Money talks, and the hunters bring the money. Tell states like Kansas and many more that depend on it your going to shut hunting down and see what happens. Screw PETA and the horse they rode in on.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:16 PM

Come on guys really? I mean REALLY? You think everyone is going to stop hunting for even one season? Or stop buying tags? Come on...thats what I mean....a FAIRY TALE. lol
Come back down to earth and discuss this in reality.
They have said the same thing about gas....lets just stop buying it for a few days, we will show them...lol Now this tread is just getting silly.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:18 PM

oh and btech29, I promise you none of the money that tags pay for goes to fighting for your hunting rights.
Posted by: btech29

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:21 PM

My response was PETA is not ever going to stop hunting. If they think they can throw out a couple million and stop us they are the one living a fairy tail. Hunting is not going away. Period.
Posted by: ARCOREY

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:22 PM

The antis quit hunting and pooled their resources, looks like it works to me smirk. Got to sign off, got to work tomorrow and all those on welfare still depend on me.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:28 PM

i dont recall how many hunters there are in the usa...

i dont recall how many hsus, peta, ethical treatment of animals, ect...

but i do remember how many that ride the fence... around 80% of the population.
you take betty crocker house wife and average joe,show them a vid of 3 dogs harassing a coyote in a leghold... they sterotype hunters. they have never hunted before don't ever intend to but that is the picture in there head. thats not me, devin or tony.
Posted by: Orneryolfart357

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/20/11 10:35 PM

I must apologise for my "tethered remarks" I never realised that this was effective training for dogs. I only know that after having raised 2 labs "that never mauled birds" I would never train mine that way. Different strokes I guess.. Carry on.
Posted by: ozzy

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: getfoxy
I never said it wasnt LEGAL, I just dont agree with it. I have dogs, I have had Walker Hounds, Black and Tans, had a Plott. right now I have a mountain Cur, I was raised with the mindset of killing the animal clean and quickly There was no reason whatsoever that coyote needed to go through all of that....IDC about keeping it out of the spotlight or not...that was rediculous
Tony can take it personal if he wishes, fine by be, Its called an opinion.

And the discalimer thing? I cant post a disclaimer of a picture filled with blood and guts so why is it ok to post a disclaimer of this? Disclaimer means nothing.


You go!
Posted by: ozzy

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 12:17 AM

Come on, we kill vermin here. Now your gonna piss and moan about how the details, grow up. Who hasn't shot a bird with a BB gun and couldn't recover it as a kid? Crybaby's
Posted by: Duane@ssu

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 12:37 AM

There is alot of discussion going on in this thread, that has gone on in "private" among many of us.
I'm the first to say, I have posted some video, that in "hindsite" I shouldn't have. [beeep] I even have a "trapline" segment in my video. I have taken heat for it from members here, and taken heat from people in the sporting industry.
"With experience comes insite" (author unknown)
We each have choices to make in how we do things, whether your job is to train dogs, train horses, or build pianos.
Whether it's me, or Devin, or Tony, or any one else, we all make choices on what to post, and what not to,and make these choices for whatever reasons.Thats all fine, the flip side is there are consequences,not only for the guy making the post, but for other people.
Lots of good opinions, and lots to think about in this thread.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 12:50 AM

Quote:
Again Tony, I was disappointed with the cross I made. It had nothing to do with you. I guess I should have shut my mouth. I think you are well on your way to making some outstanding dogs but you don't have to prove it to anyone on here. If someone wants to see a video of the grit send it to them on a pm or better yet make them wait till you put out a video. lol I hope you keep posting on here, I for one enjoy seeing and reading your stories.

Like I said, it's all good Devin. I have no ill feelings sir.

Now, on the other hand, the following comment gets under my skin. I guess it's more of the history of comments. I don't know what I've ever done to you ET, but dang man...get off my azz. They're just a bunch of young pups in training. This is only the 2nd coyote they've had access to put a tooth on. Everything prior has been on fat and happy penned coyotes. Both times, they've done extremely well in my book, for 6 month old pups. And the "Tebbe Compound" statement...come on man. Why do you give a rats butt what I produce, train, and/or sell? This thread finally got on track to a good debate and you had to go and stick enough hot pokers in my ribs to really rub me the wrong way. I really don't understand your motive sir.

Quote:
tony is promoting/selling dogs,its part of his lively hood.tony stated "these dogs are spoken for" but the other 3 litters on the ground ain't. wink or any future pups from the tebbe compound. as far as i'm concerned tony hasn't showed a vid that his dogs have dispatched...one dog or three, nothing but leg held coyotes or coyotes that have taken a bullet.(which JMHO) there doing there job.i have never owned a cur (had coon hounds) but in my book his dogs are not gritty either, but they bay and hold marinal hit coyotes.thats there job plain and simple, the vids i have seen strenght comes in numbers. did anyone notice besides me that coyote was getting face barked until human intervention (went in grabbed the chain)tony(alpha pack leader) showed the young pups its ok... i would of bet they wouldn't of got any closer if tony didn't shake things up a bit.


Good night all.

Tony
Posted by: jbmaster

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 01:35 AM

I gotta add a couple things here.Tony mentioned the use of Poodles as a joke.All kidding aside,Poodles are some of the grittiest dogs I've ever seen.We had two of them when I was really young.Both were real hunters and killers.No joking. It has been said also that this is no place for this type of video.Well,where else would it belong? And,last but not least,it has been said that hunting priveledges were not in danger.Don't ever believe that.And hunting is NOT your right.It is a priveledge.Look at the history of some other countries.I think Germany is one.All hunting is on Preserve type land.You cannot own a gun there.You must use a gun at the preserve.This could easily happen here.Here in Pa,license sales are so far down that I doubt the money from their sale pays all the PGC costs.Guys in Pa., if you think I'm kidding,go to a hunter safety course in your town.Hardly any kids starting anymore.I took a kid to one a few years ago and out of three towns, they had 11 kids.They had to combine towns to make it worth the effort.It used to sound like a war on the first day of deer around here.Now you here a shot here,a shot there.And you hardly see any hunters in the woods around here. Point is,we must try to present ourselves well out there.As far as Tony's video,the one pup seemed to stay back and let the other two get up close and personal.I figure that this dog is the smartest of the bunch!
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 06:37 AM

tony PM sent
Posted by: knockemdown

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 08:11 AM

Well, I woke up this morning half cringing to follow up here, but I see there has been some constructive dialogue! I'm glad for that!!!

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i dont recall how many hunters there are in the usa...

i dont recall how many hsus, peta, ethical treatment of animals, ect...

but i do remember how many that ride the fence... around 80% of the population.
you take betty crocker house wife and average joe,show them a vid of 3 dogs harassing a coyote in a leghold... they sterotype hunters. they have never hunted before don't ever intend to but that is the picture in there head. thats not me, devin or tony.


I quoted this, because it is that 80% of the population that we don't want to push in the wrong direction!
This issue never has been about the 10% of the population who are hunters & see nothing wrong with a video of that nature. Nor is it about the 10% radical peta-types who look to end our collective sports.

It is about how WE (the of us 10%) make an impression on that vast 80% majority who could be swayed to go either way on the fence! If that majority where to be swayed against our favor, then [beeep] straight they could shut us DOWN! As Devin pointed out, it's already happened in several states!!!

This isn't about egos, individuals, or dogs, this is about preserving what we LOVE to do! Hunt, trap & fish!!! So, considering that, it IS that 80% of the general public that we need to keep in mind when we share pics, vids & such.

IN short, use good judgement, common sense & a PG type rating as your guide. But there is NO need to quite posting pics, vids, or telling stories!!!

Sorry it took making a mini-chit-storm to get that point across. And thanks to Devin & the other guys for helping to clarify it better than I could.

Good hunting guys!



Posted by: BOBTAILS

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 09:04 AM

Well said Fred. I too enjoy the videos and pics. Keep them comin'.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 10:02 AM

Originally Posted By: knockemdown
Well, I woke up this morning half cringing to follow up here, but I see there has been some constructive dialogue! I'm glad for that!!!

Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i dont recall how many hunters there are in the usa...

i dont recall how many hsus, peta, ethical treatment of animals, ect...

but i do remember how many that ride the fence... around 80% of the population.
you take betty crocker house wife and average joe,show them a vid of 3 dogs harassing a coyote in a leghold... they sterotype hunters. they have never hunted before don't ever intend to but that is the picture in there head. thats not me, devin or tony.


I quoted this, because it is that 80% of the population that we don't want to push in the wrong direction!
This issue never has been about the 10% of the population who are hunters & see nothing wrong with a video of that nature. Nor is it about the 10% radical peta-types who look to end our collective sports.

It is about how WE (the of us 10%) make an impression on that vast 80% majority who could be swayed to go either way on the fence! If that majority where to be swayed against our favor, then [beeep] straight they could shut us DOWN! As Devin pointed out, it's already happened in several states!!!

This isn't about egos, individuals, or dogs, this is about preserving what we LOVE to do! Hunt, trap & fish!!! So, considering that, it IS that 80% of the general public that we need to keep in mind when we share pics, vids & such.

IN short, use good judgement, common sense & a PG type rating as your guide. But there is NO need to quite posting pics, vids, or telling stories!!!

Sorry it took making a mini-chit-storm to get that point across. And thanks to Devin & the other guys for helping to clarify it better than I could.

Good hunting guys!






I understand what your saying but, honestly what percentage of that 80% would EVER see that video? I dont think any hunter would show that to Suzy homemaker, thats stupid and irresponsible. I look at it kinda like this.... When is the last time YOU went to Bettycrocker.com and looked up a video on making spinich quiche? Probably never. Kinda the same thing. Its not in your lifestyle. Same with Suzy, she would probably NEVER come to this site and just happen to see that video. Is it posssible, yes. Likely, no.
Don't get me wrong i get it, but realisticly I dont believe that 80% will EVER see this video unless shown to them on purpose. To claim they will just seems like paranoia.
Posted by: Jesse lackey

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 10:33 AM

I will chime in here one more time.

I too think this thread has covered some good topics, and looking back now, i will say that i was probably wrong in my opp. But thats why i called it an opp, not a fact. I think that good did come from this thread, but also some bad.

I dont think that anyone on here has the right to bash another persons dogs, or the way they hunt. If TT or Duane, or Devin, Myself, or anyone else got on here and said, "This is how my dogs hunt, and its the only right way" then yeah, speak your peace.

BUT, none of them have. It has been said many times, "hunt your dogs the way you want, and be happy"

Tony has made no attempt to hide what his dogs do, or how they do it. If his dogs dont fit the discription you have of a decoy dog,,,,,,,, Dont buy a dog from him, and leave it alone.

There is no reason why any thread should turn into a dog bashing session. If a guy is honest about what his dogs do, and how they do it, it is what it is, he is happy, there is no reason to continually bash a guy and his dogs.

I dont own any of Duanes dogs, I dont own any of Devins dogs, and i dont own any of Devins dogs. If any of these guys were trying to sell me a dog, and i didnt like the dog, or have a use for it, i would tell them so in privite.

To be honest, i havent seen a dog on here that i would have any use for, or feed every day, (except Duanes "Spotlight" stud, But he is a very handsome dog! lol)
But i dont continually bash them because their dogs arent what im looking fore, i know what i want from a dog, and i find it, and leave the rest alone.
Posted by: yfzduner450

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 10:37 AM

Hunt, You are absolutely right. The 80% of people would never go looking for the video but these activist love to promote videos like that to get their agenda passed in congress. I don't think we need to stop posting altogether but we just need to be aware of what we post. I like to see the dog work but i do realize it may end up biting us in the azz one day.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 12:38 PM

Yes they do. However, where do you draw the line? We are talking about fanatics here. Everything we do offends them. They are just as likely to purchase Duanes video(no offense) and use that, or any number of videos out there. No one jumps on Duane, RA, Burnham Bros, why because their videos are acceptable to hunters BUT I promise they would'nt be to the anti's. Following your line of logic, we should just stop hunting because sooner or later the anti's will use it against us.
Do you realize some of them crazies are even against dog collars? Do you take your dogs collar off when you go to town, so the anti's wont see it? Of course not, but the fact still stands it offends them. Anti's are like terrorists, and there is no apeasing them.
My point is, TT's video is no different than anything else when it comes to hunting and an anti's opinion of it. I'm not saying rub it in their face, but posting such a video in a hunting forum is not unacceptable IMO, just because some on here took great offense to it, and tried to bolster their opinion publicly, and have the entire post removed. Thats wrong.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Huntsleepfish
Yes they do. However, where do you draw the line? We are talking about fanatics here. Everything we do offends them. They are just as likely to purchase Duanes video(no offense) and use that, or any number of videos out there. No one jumps on Duane, RA, Burnham Bros, why because their videos are acceptable to hunters BUT I promise they would'nt be to the anti's. Following your line of logic, we should just stop hunting because sooner or later the anti's will use it against us.
Do you realize some of them crazies are even against dog collars? Do you take your dogs collar off when you go to town, so the anti's wont see it? Of course not, but the fact still stands it offends them. Anti's are like terrorists, and there is no apeasing them.
My point is, TT's video is no different than anything else when it comes to hunting and an anti's opinion of it. I'm not saying rub it in their face, but posting such a video in a hunting forum is not unacceptable IMO, just because some on here took great offense to it, and tried to bolster their opinion publicly, and have the entire post removed. Thats wrong.
There is a huge difference...Videos are protected under copy write laws and can NOT be used or copied under penilty of the law. The World Wide Web is a free for all and can be coppied and used by anyone that want to use it.
Posted by: yfzduner450

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 01:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Huntsleepfish
. Following your line of logic, we should just stop hunting because sooner or later the anti's will use it against us.


My line of logic just stated that we need to be aware of what we post, not stop hunting. I used to have the mindset that you have and said [beeep] the anti's but thread like this have opened my eyes and I've read and realized what some of the more experienced guys have to say about this topic. I understand the need to keep certain things to ourselves and out of the public eye. I personally enjoyed seeing the video. I have nothing bad to say about it but when you look at it from the outside, ya maybe it should have been kept private. I plan on putting my dog on a couple trapped coyotes this weekend for some training and will be filming the whole thing but you won't see the video posted come monday. That's the point i'm trying to convey.
Posted by: NEYOTEMAN

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 01:52 PM

Tony I hope you keep posting. I really enjoy seeing your dogs work and your knowledge you post on here. I bought one of the pups out of that litter and that's how I have been training him its the best way to get a wounded coyote in front of them young pups. Keep up the good work and I am proud to say I have gotten a pup from Tony Tebbe!
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Devin69
There is a huge difference...Videos are protected under copy write laws and can NOT be used or copied under penilty of the law. The World Wide Web is a free for all and can be coppied and used by anyone that want to use it.


I don't believe that is correct. Copyright pertains to reproducing and distribution of said works. Don't believe it stops you from showing a video in public or Congress for that matter.

Thats not all I was talking about either.. why is it ok to make a DVD with explicit warnings about hunting, and sell it to the public, but as soon as someone posts on a hunting forum all of a sudden it is horrible. Is it to close home here. I dont see how you can have 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Its all the same to the anti's. I guess it's the socially accepted difference that I dont understand.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: yfzduner450
I have nothing bad to say about it but when you look at it from the outside



Thats exactly what I was saying before.. WHO is looking at it from the outside? The 10% of anti's, doesnt matter what we post they dispise all of it. The 80% on the fence, doubtful, unless Suzy Homemaker developes a bloodlust. The 10% of hunters, not even close, predator hunters are a very small percentage of that 10%. So, WHO is looking? Perhaps 1% of 10%. That isnt very many folks.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Huntsleepfish
Originally Posted By: Devin69
There is a huge difference...Videos are protected under copy write laws and can NOT be used or copied under penilty of the law. The World Wide Web is a free for all and can be coppied and used by anyone that want to use it.


I don't believe that is correct. Copyright pertains to reproducing and distribution of said works. Don't believe it stops you from showing a video in public or Congress for that matter.
Well maybe you should check it out before you express yourself, because you have to have the writen concent of the owner of the video before you can do so.lol Just rent yourself a video and watch the first part of it...you know the FBI warning. You are trying to pound a square peg into a round hole,just because you are trying to defend Tony and this is not about Tony it is about what is right or wrong and Tony just happened to be the one that brought it up.
Now we all know you think Tony is a God and he walks on Water and that is all fine and dandy but most of us are in it for the long haul and want our kids and grandkids to be able to hunt as well. So maybe you can step outside your little Tony world and look at the big picture.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Huntsleepfish
Originally Posted By: yfzduner450
I have nothing bad to say about it but when you look at it from the outside



Thats exactly what I was saying before.. WHO is looking at it from the outside? The 10% of anti's, doesnt matter what we post they dispise all of it. The 80% on the fence, doubtful, unless Suzy Homemaker developes a bloodlust. The 10% of hunters, not even close, predator hunters are a very small percentage of that 10%. So, WHO is looking? Perhaps 1% of 10%. That isnt very many folks.
You are wrong again...they are advertising on the radio and TV now days and these pictures and videos are brought up to the meetings that we have to defend ourselves at. Ask anyone that lives in Washington and Oregon and Arizona and Califonia and Colorado that was at any of those meetings that destoyed the hunting right for those states....Ask them if any of that was there to show Betty Crocker house wife. lol You are so mis informed.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 05:39 PM

Oh wow aren't you clever. I never said this was about Tony, and who are you to tell me what I think? I was trying to discuss the whats right and wrong issue and you go and sling mud, like a child. Nevermind then I'm done talking to you.
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 05:48 PM

Sling mud? You are not discussing anything. You keep saying the same thing over and over and I am telling you that you are dead wrong. This stuff is shown to the public and it is huge and affects all of us. No they are not coming on here and viewing it, and most are not seaching it out. But at these meeting where people are voting to put it on the ballet, well you can bet your butt this stuff will show up there and it will kill us, like it has done in the states I have mentioned. But you don't want to keep an open mind about that and want to keep saying stuff you know nothing about. Now if that is mud slinging then yes and I will keep slinging it to keep my hunting rights.
Posted by: Rimrock1

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 07:19 PM

Here is an example of what public opinion, fueled by zealots, has done in California.

The Mountain Lion Foundation (MLF) got proposition 117 placed on the general ballot in 1990. This would end all sport hunting of mountain lions and called for 30 million dollars per year to be placed in the Habitat Conservation Fund. MLF spent a lot of money bashing hunters to arouse public sentiment. The proposition passed.

In 1994 a woman jogger was killed by a lion. Trusts were set up to care for her small children. The lion was killed and found to have one or two small kittens which were captured. A trust was also set up for the kittens. More money was collected for the kittens than for the children.

In the wake of this, and other attacks on humans, there was an effort to repeal prop 117. Again, MLF went public with their efforts. "Blood thirsty hunters." "Poor misunderstood mountain lions." The repeal failed by a margin of over 16%. most of the votes that killed it came from the Greater Los Angeles and San Francisco areas. Typical non-hunting areas filled with people swayed with the hype of media advertizing.

The results are that there has been no sport hunting of mountain lions for 21 years. Their numbers have grown to the point that the deer and bighorn sheep herds have been decimented.

Don't ever underestimate the means that the antis will go to to further their agenda, or the power they can generate.
Posted by: Chilson

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: getfoxy
Before I start- Nothing personal

I thought about keeping my mouth shut but its hard to do, so heregoes.

Can you guys read what it says a 1 o'clock on the decal? "Kill Clean"?


How can anyone let an animal sit in a leg hold trap while 3 dogs maul it? How is that acceptable at all?

I'll be the first to say I know nothing of coyote hunting with dogs, all this time when I heard of dogs being used for coyote hunting I kinda thought the dog just held the coyote there until you got there to dispatch the animal cleanly and humanely...not like this. There was no sport in this whatsoever, that coyote never had a chance.

Call me soft, a pansy, a liberal IDC, to me this is about as CRUEL, yes I said it, as it gets. Wasnt hunting, wasnt dog traing, it was straight up torture.

But I cant show a picture of a groundhog being blown to pieces by a 55g bullet doint 3500 FPS but Its acceptabe to watch dogs do it?




like a typical liberal putz you state "leg hold" it is a foothold trap. " the only one you are screwin is you when you put donwn what you dont understand"
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Rimrock1
Here is an example of what public opinion, fueled by zealots, has done in California.

The Mountain Lion Foundation (MLF) got proposition 117 placed on the general ballot in 1990. This would end all sport hunting of mountain lions and called for 30 million dollars per year to be placed in the Habitat Conservation Fund. MLF spent a lot of money bashing hunters to arouse public sentiment. The proposition passed.

In 1994 a woman jogger was killed by a lion. Trusts were set up to care for her small children. The lion was killed and found to have one or two small kittens which were captured. A trust was also set up for the kittens. More money was collected for the kittens than for the children.

In the wake of this, and other attacks on humans, there was an effort to repeal prop 117. Again, MLF went public with their efforts. "Blood thirsty hunters." "Poor misunderstood mountain lions." The repeal failed by a margin of over 16%. most of the votes that killed it came from the Greater Los Angeles and San Francisco areas. Typical non-hunting areas filled with people swayed with the hype of media advertizing.

The results are that there has been no sport hunting of mountain lions for 21 years. Their numbers have grown to the point that the deer and bighorn sheep herds have been decimented.

Don't ever underestimate the means that the antis will go to to further their agenda, or the power they can generate.power
Rimrock1, Thank you so much for your input.
Posted by: Dustballs

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 08:21 PM

[/quote]but most of us are in it for the long haul and want our kids and grandkids to be able to hunt as well. look at the big picture. [/quote]

I will agree with Devin on this. I will be smiling from above when my kids' grand kids get on a forum like this and say. "I am a fourth generation houndsman and no one on these forums knows anything".
Posted by: ARCOREY

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 08:55 PM

The opposite scenario has happened in my area. I sat on the interstate for an hour and a half a few years ago for a wreck involving a semi truck and a pickup truck. By the time I get to the wreck I see the drop cloths over what was left of the pickup and see it was cut in half by the semi. Later I found out that a whitetail deer jumped out in front of a woman driving the pickup and hit her, knocked her into the path of the semi and both her and the truck were basically cut in half. Shortly after the family started to petition the local town to do something about the local deer population that had grown out of control. They were well informed with statistics and did their homework. The got a following and went in with an educational approach instead of a lynch mob mentality. Long story short, we now have an Urban Archery season mostly due to these folks educating the public with facts, not hot air, and not with smoke and mirrors and not just by saying what the majority wanted to hear.

Men were expected to hunt not so long ago. It was something that went without question. Propoganda and false education have fueled the fires against our sport. People grow tolerant of what is in their face 24-7. Rather than censor ourselves so much, maybe we need to saturate the opposition and fence riders more. I'm not saying go wide open and turn our videos into a Quinton Tarentino film, but not hold off on an impact shot, blood trails, animals in traps and the truth that goes with hunting. You'd be surprised how many Betty Crockers will turn their position when you make them the victim of a coyote, skunk, or other vermin animal and show them a starved wild animal from over population, a hurt kid from coyotes and mountain lions hunting in town, or their toy poodle nabbed by a predator. Show a liberal a video of a coyote playing tug of war with a cow over after birth or killing a lamb slowly and then show them a couple pups taking down a coyote on a drag. See where their sympathy is then. I bet they root for the pups wink. Then there are those, as mentioned that think we shouldn't put collars on dogs and eat meat. They won't be reached whether we are censored or not, they are extremist and luckily not the majority. These are the people rescuing animals from shelters in front of the TV camera during the day and killing them and hiding them in dumpsters in the cloak of night because they too don't know how to solve over population without killing.
Posted by: jbmaster

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 09:30 PM

On the copyright subject.A copyright has to be purchased and filed on a video,picture,article,etc.,just like buying a patent on an invention.If the material has no copyright filed,it is fair game and has no legal owner.
Posted by: Rimrock1

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 09:40 PM

FAQ from the United States Copyright Office bulletin:

When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”
Posted by: DoubleCK

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 10:03 PM

I think I may see a trend here.

Seems the dog men and hunters trying to hold there own as minorities in "Blue States" are more aware and sensitive to these issues than those hunting and running dogs in the "Red States."

Could be BS, just a thought.
Posted by: Dustballs

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 11:21 PM

I think you may be right. On my youngest sons first day in preschool this year he proudly painted a picture of a dead coyote for me. I wonder how that would have went over in NY, Cali, Co or other places.
Posted by: btech29

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 11:27 PM

Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
I think I may see a trend here.

Seems the dog men and hunters trying to hold there own as minorities in "Blue States" are more aware and sensitive to these issues than those hunting and running dogs in the "Red States."

Could be BS, just a thought.


Good post. Im from the south. Aint not worries. Your talking about civil war when you talk about taking away our hunting rights. Aint happening.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/21/11 11:35 PM

This is turned around into a good thread. I've never been one to tiptoe around and worry about PETA and the such. I've generally just flipped them off....but I'm listening to this thread. I'm the same guy that wears a coyote fur coat with a camo hat, when I fly on a hunting trip. I'm not ashamed one bit as a hunter. I've got a PETA, animal horder, neighbor that lives directly across the road from me. She's attempted to turn me in 3 different times to NMGF. I don't pussyfoot around and hide what I do. I take great pride in what I do for a living and have since moved my coyote dog training from the back yard to the front yard, in plain sight....just out of spite. grin

PS. I never got a PM from you, EmeraldTerrier.

Tony
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/22/11 12:57 AM

Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
I think I may see a trend here.

Seems the dog men and hunters trying to hold there own as minorities in "Blue States" are more aware and sensitive to these issues than those hunting and running dogs in the "Red States."

Could be BS, just a thought.



Agreed.
Posted by: Huntsleepfish

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/22/11 01:01 AM

Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
This is turned around into a good thread. I've never been one to tiptoe around and worry about PETA and the such. I've generally just flipped them off....but I'm listening to this thread. I'm the same guy that wears a coyote fur coat with a camo hat, when I fly on a hunting trip. I'm not ashamed one bit as a hunter. I've got a PETA, animal horder, neighbor that lives directly across the road from me. She's attempted to turn me in 3 different times to NMGF. I don't pussyfoot around and hide what I do. I take great pride in what I do for a living and have since moved my coyote dog training from the back yard to the front yard, in plain sight....just out of spite. grin

PS. I never got a PM from you, EmeraldTerrier.

Tony



Apparently I believe you can walk on water Tony, so could you please post a video of that next( I'm kinda doubting you can, sorry) just make sure you get your copyright in place first.
Posted by: emeraldterriers1

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/22/11 08:31 PM

tony i dont know where or what happened to it. maybe gunner ate it.lol just jokin. what would be a good time to call ya? pm me if you want yours came through.

bob
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/22/11 09:18 PM

Call me anytime Bob. 575-390-0048

Thanks...Tony
Posted by: Duane@ssu

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/22/11 10:00 PM

For anyone that thinks I have taken no "heat", for the content of my video, here are some facts, I lost a corporate hunt,(5000$),around 100 nasty phone calls, and a handful of emails.
The bunny humpers have nothing better to do than mess with us.
I'm not ashamed of what I do, or how I do, for years I had the "screw them mentality", then we lost our rights to hunt lions or bears with dogs. I had cops here 3 times this year, because someone with a "boner", made false claims about me breaking the law.
My point is, because I "dog" game, where I live I am a "target".
This whole thread,comes down to concerns about the consequences of posting video. Nothing more, nothing less.
If we are all aware that anything put on video, or stills, and shared,could be used against us at some point. I'm not saying to not post anything, and not suggesting to "hide",just saying that a reminder for all of us to be aware is not a bad thing.
Posted by: PAverminator

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/23/11 07:43 PM

Tony, I for one love the video's. Some people just aren't dog men. Maybe I'm a little twisted, but I'm a firm believer in seeing dogs do what they are bred to do.

On a side note, a buddy of mine just got 2 4 month old catahoula pups from Corlew kennel in Georgia, we hope they turn out just like yours.
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/23/11 07:50 PM

Thanks man. I don't believe I'll be posting any more videos of my training. I've had a ton of guys ask for me to come out with a decoy dog training video, but I'm reluctant to, for the very same reasons. The work that goes into training high-power dogs isn't for the faint of heart. I think it's best to keep it under the covers.

Thanks again.

Tony
Posted by: Devin69

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/23/11 07:55 PM

Maybe make it for the REAL DOG MAN Tony. Not for us that are the faint of heart.lol
Posted by: TonyTebbe

Re: Gunner/Mattie pups training (video stills) - 09/23/11 11:43 PM

Hahahaha! I'd sell like a whole whopping 8 copies. lol

Tony