I am reloading .223 once fired brass on a RCBS rockchucker with AR full length dies. When I load 55gr fmj-bt I don't have any issues but if I try to reload 55 gr soft points on the same head stamp brass the shoulder is swelling out. Any ideas what could be causing this issue? Everything from brass to powder charge is identical except the bullet. I have reloaded the soft points in the past with no issue on .556 LC brass and Remington 223 brass. I am currently using WMA 14 brass with the NATO circle and cross, could it just be bad brass? This is my first time time using this headstamp.
223 case shoulder issues... Need advice
- Thread starter Kep37
- Start date
Originally Posted By: Kep37Originally Posted By: springerAre the soft points flat base? Are you inside chamfering the brass?
Yes on both accounts. I am using a flat base soft point and all brass are chamfered inside and out
Best guess not enough chamfer and you are collapsing the shoulders before the bullets get started. This explains why the boat tails don't cause issues.
Yes on both accounts. I am using a flat base soft point and all brass are chamfered inside and out
Best guess not enough chamfer and you are collapsing the shoulders before the bullets get started. This explains why the boat tails don't cause issues.
Originally Posted By: Kep37I am reloading .223 once fired brass on a RCBS rockchucker with AR full length dies. When I load 55gr fmj-bt I don't have any issues but if I try to reload 55 gr soft points on the same head stamp brass the shoulder is swelling out. Any ideas what could be causing this issue? Everything from brass to powder charge is identical except the bullet. I have reloaded the soft points in the past with no issue on .556 LC brass and Remington 223 brass. I am currently using WMA 14 brass with the NATO circle and cross, could it just be bad brass? This is my first time time using this headstamp.
This could be caused by crimping case before bullet is fully seated. That will do it every time. Try backing off your seating die a turn or so, then screw seater stem in to achieve desired OAL. If shoulder is not bulged, back off seating stem, leave the shell you just loaded in press w/ram up and screw die down until you feel it contact cartridge, then a bit more to obtain amount of crimp desired (or not if no crimp desired). Then you can readjust seating stem w/same cartridge in press, screwing stem in until you feel it contact bullet.
I loaded these two .375 H&H cartridges to illustrate problem above. Top cartridge loaded w/properly set die. Bottom (w/bulged shoulder) loaded by screwing die a bit deeper.
You can pull bullets and run bulged cases back through sizing die to salvage your damaged cases; you can see shiny ring @ shoulder where bulge was removed:
Edit to add: Would be a good idea to check any cases other than belted cases which have been salvaged by resizing with a cartridge headspace gauge to be sure shoulder not pushed back too far which would result in excessive headspace. Not a problem on belted cases that headspace off the belt rather than shoulder.
Regards,
hm
This could be caused by crimping case before bullet is fully seated. That will do it every time. Try backing off your seating die a turn or so, then screw seater stem in to achieve desired OAL. If shoulder is not bulged, back off seating stem, leave the shell you just loaded in press w/ram up and screw die down until you feel it contact cartridge, then a bit more to obtain amount of crimp desired (or not if no crimp desired). Then you can readjust seating stem w/same cartridge in press, screwing stem in until you feel it contact bullet.
I loaded these two .375 H&H cartridges to illustrate problem above. Top cartridge loaded w/properly set die. Bottom (w/bulged shoulder) loaded by screwing die a bit deeper.
You can pull bullets and run bulged cases back through sizing die to salvage your damaged cases; you can see shiny ring @ shoulder where bulge was removed:
Edit to add: Would be a good idea to check any cases other than belted cases which have been salvaged by resizing with a cartridge headspace gauge to be sure shoulder not pushed back too far which would result in excessive headspace. Not a problem on belted cases that headspace off the belt rather than shoulder.
Regards,
hm
I'm not using a crimping type die. But I did try backing it off a bit and resetting the seater stem for OAL. Still had a small bulge but was a lot better. Tried to reclean all of the case necks, in case I had some dirt or polishing compound still in there, and of course the nylon brush I was using wasn't quite getting them clean enough. Combined with all of the advice and using a copper bristle brush I think I have this issue fixed. THANK YOU everyone for the help!!!
Quote: I'm not using a crimping type die. But I did try backing it off a bit and resetting the seater stem for OAL. Still had a small bulge but was a lot better.
Does anyone make a non-crimping seating die? All the standard dies provided by major manufacturers that I have seen will crimp a bullet when screwed down far enough to do so.
Might try backing die out a tad more and see if the bulge goes away??
Regards,
hm
Does anyone make a non-crimping seating die? All the standard dies provided by major manufacturers that I have seen will crimp a bullet when screwed down far enough to do so.
Might try backing die out a tad more and see if the bulge goes away??
Regards,
hm
ohihunter2014
New member
im a newbie but will offer my .02--With flat based bullets you have to chamfer the case mouth pretty good as I had somewhat the same issue but wasn't collapsing it it was cutting the bullet.
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
Tim Neitzke
New member
Originally Posted By: ohihunter2014im a newbie but will offer my .02--With flat based bullets you have to chamfer the case mouth pretty good as I had somewhat the same issue but wasn't collapsing it it was cutting the bullet.
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
Knowing what you are doing before giving advice, is always a plus.....hint
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
Knowing what you are doing before giving advice, is always a plus.....hint
ohihunter2014
New member
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeOriginally Posted By: ohihunter2014im a newbie but will offer my .02--With flat based bullets you have to chamfer the case mouth pretty good as I had somewhat the same issue but wasn't collapsing it it was cutting the bullet.
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
Knowing what you are doing before giving advice, is always a plus.....hint
care to elaborate what I said wrong? this advice that I gave him was given to me by a lot of other people and some who have reloaded 30+years.
so instead of jumping on the bandwagon like a few others on here because they don't like some things I ask or post don't be a jerk about it and tell me and the OP what I said wrong because maybe the other people who helped me told me wrong. part of the learning process isn't it? thought that's what this sites about?
I pretty much agreed with HM but I guess I could have been a little more elaborate about turning the die out a bit instead of just in a bit to not crimp and seat at the same time.
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
Knowing what you are doing before giving advice, is always a plus.....hint
care to elaborate what I said wrong? this advice that I gave him was given to me by a lot of other people and some who have reloaded 30+years.
so instead of jumping on the bandwagon like a few others on here because they don't like some things I ask or post don't be a jerk about it and tell me and the OP what I said wrong because maybe the other people who helped me told me wrong. part of the learning process isn't it? thought that's what this sites about?
I pretty much agreed with HM but I guess I could have been a little more elaborate about turning the die out a bit instead of just in a bit to not crimp and seat at the same time.
Last edited:
Plant.One
Well-known member
if you're going to crimp in a seperate setp - resetting the seating die is not the best way to go about it. i dont know if its even possible to do what you suggested with a die that has a roll crimp without goofing your loads up one way or another.
this is where something like a lee factory crimp die comes into play. much easier to adjust and then you're not stuck fugding your seating die back and forth every time you reload a batch of ammo. Getting your seating die set once correctly in any of the quick change bushing setups and leave it there and using crimping with a specific crimp die is a MUCH MUCH better way to go about it.
my $0.02 USD
this is where something like a lee factory crimp die comes into play. much easier to adjust and then you're not stuck fugding your seating die back and forth every time you reload a batch of ammo. Getting your seating die set once correctly in any of the quick change bushing setups and leave it there and using crimping with a specific crimp die is a MUCH MUCH better way to go about it.
my $0.02 USD
Tim Neitzke
New member
Originally Posted By: ohihunter2014im a newbie but will offer my .02--With flat based bullets you have to chamfer the case mouth pretty good as I had somewhat the same issue but wasn't collapsing it it was cutting the bullet.
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
No bandwagon here.... I've watched most of your "problem " posts over the last year, from gun range memberships to rifle issues,etc... Plenty of good advice has been offered ,yet you drag your feet or want to debate what the problem is.
I try not to say much anymore because either, 1. I tend to tell it like it is (no sugar) and people don't like it . or 2 . It tends to be a waste of time .
On that note, now for thoughts of mine that maybe either right or wrong depending on who you listen too...
* A good tight neck even well champfered,will slightly "shave" a bullet. Barnes do this for me once in awhile. Don't bother me one bit.
** A seating die when properly set up per factory specs to not crimp... will not crimp.
*** If you want to crimp there is no reason to seat and crimp in more than one step. *** read single stage press**
**** Web info or face to face info, reguardless if they are a newbie or a season vet reloader, can be wrong.
Not trying to be a jerk, I'm just out of sugar...
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
No bandwagon here.... I've watched most of your "problem " posts over the last year, from gun range memberships to rifle issues,etc... Plenty of good advice has been offered ,yet you drag your feet or want to debate what the problem is.
I try not to say much anymore because either, 1. I tend to tell it like it is (no sugar) and people don't like it . or 2 . It tends to be a waste of time .
On that note, now for thoughts of mine that maybe either right or wrong depending on who you listen too...
* A good tight neck even well champfered,will slightly "shave" a bullet. Barnes do this for me once in awhile. Don't bother me one bit.
** A seating die when properly set up per factory specs to not crimp... will not crimp.
*** If you want to crimp there is no reason to seat and crimp in more than one step. *** read single stage press**
**** Web info or face to face info, reguardless if they are a newbie or a season vet reloader, can be wrong.
Not trying to be a jerk, I'm just out of sugar...
Your seating die has a crippling feature. Back it off, as it is in too far and causing the issue. I run the die to contact the case, then back it off atleast 1/2 turn. A full turn doesn't hurt any...If you are using an VLD type chamfer tool, it may be too steep for the flat base bullets. Also be careful to not over chamfer, you can make the mouth too thing and it can get jammed in the die.
Originally Posted By: ohihunter2014Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeOriginally Posted By: ohihunter2014im a newbie but will offer my .02--With flat based bullets you have to chamfer the case mouth pretty good as I had somewhat the same issue but wasn't collapsing it it was cutting the bullet.
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
Knowing what you are doing before giving advice, is always a plus.....hint
care to elaborate what I said wrong? this advice that I gave him was given to me by a lot of other people and some who have reloaded 30+years.
so instead of jumping on the bandwagon like a few others on here because they don't like some things I ask or post don't be a jerk about it and tell me and the OP what I said wrong because maybe the other people who helped me told me wrong. part of the learning process isn't it? thought that's what this sites about?
I pretty much agreed with HM but I guess I could have been a little more elaborate about turning the die out a bit instead of just in a bit to not crimp and seat at the same time.
Parroting others advice is dangerous...much can be lost in translation. In addition, using your seating die in a separate step is simply foolish. Crimp during the seating process (with the dire properly adjusted to prevent buckling), or get a separate crimp die. Adjusting the seating die again and again is setting you up for failure. Get the die set, developed the load, and leave it be.
also I put my die in just barely until I can get the seat stem to touch and seat where I want. I noticed with my rcbs dies for 223 I set them at the instructions and still got crimp so I kept raising it until it didn't crimp at all. if you look at the very edge of the case mouth you should be able to see the brass start to roll inward if its a roll crimp seating die like mine.
you should seat then turn die in and crimp in a separate step by turning the seat stem out to where it doesn't seat again.
Knowing what you are doing before giving advice, is always a plus.....hint
care to elaborate what I said wrong? this advice that I gave him was given to me by a lot of other people and some who have reloaded 30+years.
so instead of jumping on the bandwagon like a few others on here because they don't like some things I ask or post don't be a jerk about it and tell me and the OP what I said wrong because maybe the other people who helped me told me wrong. part of the learning process isn't it? thought that's what this sites about?
I pretty much agreed with HM but I guess I could have been a little more elaborate about turning the die out a bit instead of just in a bit to not crimp and seat at the same time.
Parroting others advice is dangerous...much can be lost in translation. In addition, using your seating die in a separate step is simply foolish. Crimp during the seating process (with the dire properly adjusted to prevent buckling), or get a separate crimp die. Adjusting the seating die again and again is setting you up for failure. Get the die set, developed the load, and leave it be.
Tim Neitzke
New member
Originally Posted By: GLShooterI use progressive presses so can crimp separately if the need arises. It is rare that I must on rifles as most of mine get plenty of grab with neck tension. All my pistol rounds are crimped separately.
Greg
A progressive is a nice exception to the crimp and seat 1 and done. My statement was more tunnel vision to the problem at hand.
Greg
A progressive is a nice exception to the crimp and seat 1 and done. My statement was more tunnel vision to the problem at hand.
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeOriginally Posted By: GLShooterI use progressive presses so can crimp separately if the need arises. It is rare that I must on rifles as most of mine get plenty of grab with neck tension. All my pistol rounds are crimped separately.
Greg
A progressive is a nice exception to the crimp and seat 1 and done. My statement was more tunnel vision to the problem at hand.
Yep. That's why I went to a progressive two years after I started loading in 75. In fact I haven't used a true single stage since then although I have a new Rock Chucker in the box I've had for about five years..lol
Greg
Greg
A progressive is a nice exception to the crimp and seat 1 and done. My statement was more tunnel vision to the problem at hand.
Yep. That's why I went to a progressive two years after I started loading in 75. In fact I haven't used a true single stage since then although I have a new Rock Chucker in the box I've had for about five years..lol
Greg
